Shrapnel Shot

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Boem wrote:

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TherosPherae wrote:

From what I can tell from my testing, Shrapnel Shot's wording is a little misleading and extra arrows don't generate extra AoEs - you get as many arrows as you shoot, and just the one AoE regardless of arrow numbers. This makes linking it to stuff like LMP a little problematic, since the extra projectiles might not be worth cutting down your AoE damage.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that my testing has just been a bit misleading; I'm still tinkering with it.

your probably correct, however, i hope this is a bug.

If the aoe overlap works, this would be a magnificent skill to play pointblank with. It would fully benefit strategical placement then.

Currently it's just "here have autopierce at early levels"

Which is rather yawn inducing if its the only route to explore.

Peace,

-Boem-

I am using , and it's a critt build.

I use fire arrow as single target skill atm, it performs better than frenzy (not relevant here, i know).

What i notice is the following: when i critt with my single target skill (which does 10k at max, 400 lowest) or when i critt with shrapnel shot when i shoot mobs in a distance (shrapnel does 5k at max atm) the damage difference is noticeable for sure. But when i critt near-range (in the range of the blast and the entire spread of arrows as they are being released) the damage difference is very much more significant, compared to the distance-critt or the single-target critt.

It could very well be that it's because my build is 100% lightning damage in it's base, making the damage digits range so very much (from 400 to 10k single, 400 to 5k shrapnel) making it a huge chain of coincidences whenever i'm investigating it. But i can testify that there is a significant difference in damage when you use this skill close up, compared to when you clear in a distance.

Overall though, this skill is fine for my build. I am currently doing T5 to T8 maps, depending on my map drop luck (horrible luck with drops on maps....) and it's clearing very well.

Hello GGG,

I'm currently lvl 90 Duelist with Point Blank Passive Node, 230% Increased Physical Damage, 65% increased Attack Speed.
I'm using Shrapnel Shot + Siege Baliista with Assassin's Mark + Blasphemy as well as Hatred Aura and Herald of Ash if the monsters are immune to curses and CWDT + Immortal Call + Molten Shell.
As for gears I'm currently using

First of all, I would like to suggest some sort of buff to the lightning portion of the shrapnel shot as there is no incentive to adding addition arrows to the skills. (When it is ONLY looking at the lightning damage portion).
Secondly, when the damage is compared to something that is mostly similar skill, Ice Shot, it seems that the scale on the base damage seems significantly lower, 99% base (SS) vs. 146.6% base (IS).
Finally, when it is looked at long-term, after reaching lvl 20 on gem and converting it into a 20% quality gem, it gives no additional damage which is very unusual and unlike many other typical bow gem skills. For example when everything is 20% quality, Ice Shot gives 20% Increased Cold Damage, Lightning Arrow gives 10% chance to shock enemies (which gives additional damage thereafter), Frenzy gives 10% Increased Attack Speed, Burning Arrow gives 60% Increased Ignite Duration, and so on. Of course in the bow gems, there are some gems that increases the AoE with quality such as Caustic Arrow, Rain of Arrows, and Blast Rain. However, these gems are used in a way that the most, if not all, of the damage is trying to be aimed at that specific location where as shrapnel shot is aimed to be used to deal "additional" damage to those that are close to the player along with the arrow that may or may not hit the enemies since the AoE on the lightning is far more wider than the arrow hitbox.

I think that since the gem is under-powered in so many ways, that people are reluctant to create a build that uses shrapnel shot until late/endgame and decide to change into a different gem skill for more damage. Because for most of the players, more damage = more fun
If some sort of buffs are introduced in the near future patches, I believe that the number of players who would try out the new gem would significantly increase.

I hope this helps with the changes that COULD be made in the future for Shrapnel Shot.

Best,

Cinabro

Some more feedback for you. :)

I think SS description is clear enough: primarily it fires a single projectile that pierces all enemies out to maximum range. When releasing that projectile a secondary action occurs in that energy (in the form of physical lightning) is released damaging all nearby enemies caught in the AoE. Irrespective of how many projectiles are “released” (via LMP/GMP etc) the same amount of energy is released in the secondary action and thus only a single AoE.

I levelled a Shrapnel Shot to 86 in Talisman HC… build guide here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1540518/page/1#p12394419

And it seemed solid through to mid level maps (T8s and T9s). After my unfortunate RIP I did test it against some higher level content (including and Atziri run) and the DPS did struggle. IMO it is because Shrapnel Shot encourages you to play at close range… perhaps even with Point Blank… but to do that you need to be tanky. You then need to invest heavily into points/gear to enable you to survive close quarter combat, which means gimping your DPS.

Shrapnel Shot is great for early levelling, especially when using Roth’s Reach or Doomfletch (you’ll 1 shot packs all the way to A1M)… but for it to be viable at high levels it needs some attention. I don’t think simply buffing DPS numbers at late levels is suffice, but rather review how it is intended to be used, here are some suggestions:

1) Make the % Quality AoE bonus as standard for the skill

2) Change % Quality to synergise with close quarter combat: Life Leech, Life on Hit, Reduced Physical Damage Taken etc.

3) Add in Lightning Penetration as a modifier. Starting at 1% and building up to 4% or 5% by level 20.

4) Add a modifier that prevents Knockback with SS… this opens up using things like Chin Sol or King of the Hill without being frustrating for the skill.

5) Perhaps somehow boost player movement speed when using this skill (or MS buff after firing)… compared to other ranged classes, SS players need to “close the gap” more often.

Cheers

ive tested it on my lvl90 crit Infractem ranger, so the 'damage' part is out of the way, it deals enough damage to 1-shot any white mob no problem with my current gear/build

however, while it is 'fun' to play, it is also very not quick to run and there are little options available how to fix it

1) visuals. Rory have said in the recent interview, that the way skill sounds/looks matters a lot. i agree with that. shrapnel shot looks and sounds great, however - the visuals are deceptive. the 'area of effect' should be more pronounced and clearly marked. it is THE selling point of this skill and currently one has to guess where it is, how it changes with +AOE etc. this has to be fixed as playing guessing games in min-maxing game is a no-no. just make the 'end' of the cone more pronounced and make sure that the visuals are correct - that is cover exactly the ground that the damage is being dealt. it is important

2) scaling. 'always pierce' works GREAT with Lightning Arrow and Tornado Shot (what doesnt) and so-so with Ice Shot. Why? because these skills can hit 'to the side' of an arrow (LA/TS can also hit 'to the back'). Shrapnel shot and other linear skills will leave several mobs out of the pack completely unharmed. Even using GMP + LMP and +1 quiver the '% coverage' of an area is too small to comfortably and reliably kill entire packs (that is easily done with other skills - via chain or fork or like LA/TS - hitting around)

Some form of working around it is the 'cone' damage but it is a) invisible (in practice) so difficult to get the feel and plan around b) small sized so the +AOE increases get rounded down anyway c) does not deal any significant extra damage. there are also rumors (cannot confirm) that adding arrows does not add to the 'cone's size.

3) tunnel vision usage. currently the only way to capitalize on this skill is trap + point blank + chin sol for triple dip (id have added Bino's but yeah.. joke). skill with only one use is cool (no, it is not) and is better than skill with 0 usage (burning arrow). skills that 'always pierce' excel at long range aimed shots but are very poor at 'coverage'. sadly with current mob density the coverage is the important stat, not the sniper-potential

in general it might be a nice leveling skill but it is a serious noob trap as this skill is just mechanically inferior to LA/IS/TS/SA. fixing the visuals might at least make players aware of what they are doing. adding more 'cone' areas (OVERLAPPING!) might make it a true short range skill with unique shotgun potential. however currently i would not - ever - recommend this skill to anyone

We Mainly need three things to make this skill appeal.

1 - Make the cone part of Aoe portion starting a bit in the back from the player, exactly like you GGG did for Ground Slam.
I'm not really sure why you didn't did it already but it makes sens and missing mobs right at your feet is always pretty frustrating no matter wich skill you are playing.

2 - Make the Aoe part overlapping with LMP Or "Additionnal arrow" corrupted Mod.

3 - Make the skill looking more like an old good Shotgun shoot. It really needs to feel more aggressive since we are playing it at close ranged.

When i heard about the skill, honestly i was more expecting something like a large diffused shrapnel shoot with some kind of pierce mechanic at point blank ranged.
And why not turning the lightning portion into poison portion ?
After all, we already got an ice / ligthning / Fire skills, Physical, Chaos and bleeding skills but nothing with native poison ability that could works without support gem.

the biggest problem is that the skill is intended for close combat and i can do literally the same close combat thing with ice shot, with better effectiveness. something needs to be changed, aoe should either overlap or get buffed. im not really in favor of aoe overlapping because that would force use of lmp and shrapnel shot...somehow doesnt look as good with lmp, and heres why:

basically visually speaking this is one of my favorite skills. if anyone remembers arnold in the movie "eraser" with that crazy railgun...well, that! props to whoever designed the looks and mechanics of it! so whoever watched the movie "eraser", or played quake series would love it, and probably prefer it without lmp (as the original railgun), so i would prefer if aoe stayed like this, non-overlapping

but it does need to somehow be scaled because no matter what i do with it, theres always a skill that outperforms it :(

What would be great is if the AoE followed the arrow. Like a shockwave around each arrow fired? That would give it more coverage at range, and would involve the AoE's damage throughout the entire attack.

Right now I suspect the tooltip dps does not include the AoE at all. That would make it do more dps than any other bow skill at close range. Can anyone verify that?

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Frugality wrote:

What would be great is if the AoE followed the arrow. Like a shockwave around each arrow fired? That would give it more coverage at range, and would involve the AoE's damage throughout the entire attack.

Right now I suspect the tooltip dps does not include the AoE at all. That would make it do more dps than any other bow skill at close range. Can anyone verify that?

I am a Low Level PvP build and I can confirm that atm Conc Effect has 0 actual effect on the tooltip. That being said the damage does seem better with conc effect in, at least in a pvp setting

It is said that
Сone and arrow deal damage independent of each other, effectively doubling damage dealt to monsters directly in the line of fire.

So does it mean that there are two hits?