Removing shotgunning was a bloody mistake

oh another whine thread cause after patch some build doesnt work :D is it that hard to try something new?

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

It was one of those mechanics I always feared getting used to or, horror of horrors, coming to rely on.

Glad to see my intuition was correct.

Hell, I've even remade my grenadier (yeah yeah, the one I sad-quit over when trap+mine no longer double dipped, ancient history) based on the new support, the adjusted spell damage/damage effectiveness and various nodes.

If the loss of player shotgunning was the cost of doing away with things like instant death from Thistlesage's ice spear death-event at melee range, then I pay it gladly.

It was a thing that made instant deaths if a devourer with multiple projectiles popped up to melee. It made melee unplayable, the removal and buffing of skills who used this mechanic was a great idea.

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RestInPieces wrote:

No it wasn't a terrible point, your thinking is just too one-dimensional. I am not talking about penalizing the damage further neither on the GMP nor on the single projectiles.

At the moment one of the projectiles hit the enemy, the others ignore it. It could simply be like this: One projectile hits the enemy, the second projectile from the same cast hits it for a percentage of the damage and so on. In other words damage from the same batch of projectiles of one cast gets mitigated on the same target.

What you described, in a word, was ALMOST as much as removing shotgunning outright. Also, given the "diminishing returns" effect, it'd likely make GMP actually much worse than LMP, killing its own point. Either that, or the stacked penalty would be mild enough you were effectively doing nothing: it'd be the same "always go shotgunning" meta from 1.3.

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RestInPieces wrote:

Suddenly all these single target spells NONE IS USING AT THE MOMENT as you can see by yourself by browsing 2.0 viable builds, get used again.

Explain what single-target spells would get buffed by this method, that weren't viable at all otherwise.

Incinerate is still very good; (they massively buffed its damage to compensate for no shotgunning; and overall now it has equivalent optimal damage, just now over a BIGGER area) just that people started all spamming Flame Totem. That has less to do with Incinerate than Flame Totem.

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RestInPieces wrote:

You don't go GMP gimping your damage because there are many single targets that NEED to be nuked between packs. Rogue exiles, voidspawns, certain dangerous rares etc. You HAVE to have both single target spells and AOE, IF you will be using something that is GMP depended in order to AOE.

You DO realize that with its buff, you only lose 25% or so of your single-target damage from slapping on GMP, in exchange for making hitting your target a LOT easier, right? I.e, one of the real-world uses of shotguns: they spray their projectiles over a wider range, so you're more likely to hit a target like, say, a bird.

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SjakaWaka wrote:

1)shotgunning still exists trough AoE/secondary effects

2)Lmp/Gmp has uses now that didn't exist in the past because the damage reduction buff

3)shotgunning created skills that were good for both single and multi target which just made other skills bad cause they could never do that.

4)monster skills work the same as players do.
there's a reason for that.
Separating everything will just make balancing the game a nightmare.
as you need to consider both cases instead of only 1
you never want the separate these kind of things unless there's no other way.
and guess what there was another way, the removal of shotgun and tbh am glad it's gone.

5)every projectile spell i have tried since the removal is either stronger then before or comparable. and if you had actually bothered to try it out you would have noticed that.

BTW incinerate and flame totem are the most op spells in the game right now
and they both got 'nerfed' with the shotgun change, right ?

Pretty much this.

To add, PoE has always come under heavy criticism for being a 1 button game, spam right click etc etc,
needing a single target or putting an emphasis on such is a step in the right direction imo.

Now GGG just needs to make sure there are single target options adaptable and effective enough to cover all the niches.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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diablofdb wrote:

Removing Shotgun effects was one of the best balancing decision ever made in POE history :)

This.

Also LMP and GMP are still stupid overpowered. Back when shotgunning was a thing, you automatically use them; now, you still automatically use them. The gems should receive some kind of nerf (might bump my thread on it again soon, once the infinite Feedback QQ dies down a bit).

Caster always use spell echo does it mean we should nerf it?

No ! use ur logic.

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EzBreesy wrote:

Caster always use spell echo does it mean we should nerf it?

Either that, or buff mutually exclusive options such as Trap or Spell Totem (which I think 2.0 did).

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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EzBreesy wrote:

Caster always use spell echo does it mean we should nerf it?

Either that, or buff mutually exclusive options such as Trap or Spell Totem (which I think 2.0 did).

So my conclusion is we should really buff chain, fork, and pierce. Or perhaps increased AoE, depending on what kind of projectile we're talking about. Enough with the nerfs....

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EzBreesy wrote:

Caster always use spell echo does it mean we should nerf it?

No ! use ur logic.

It certainly means that it is not exactly the best / most creative support gem ever to be created.

Fork needs a buff. Or a rework.

I don't know any Fork builds currently.

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RestInPieces wrote:

]You don't go GMP gimping your damage because there are many single targets that NEED to be nuked between packs. Rogue exiles, voidspawns, certain dangerous rares etc. You HAVE to have both single target spells and AOE, IF you will be using something that is GMP depended in order to AOE.

All I do in this game is running high level maps and I use gmp for killing EVERYTHING but a few bosses, Minara Anemina & Atziri. There is absolutely no need to swap gems while clearing trash except you run into Minara Anemina which happens to me only 1 time in 20-30 maps. I think the key is to use:
Elemental weakness + increased area of effect
I link these with empower & enhance too to further increase the usability. In fact I curse about 90% of the mobs before they enter the screen.