Loot Chance and builds - It Blows

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

IIR and IIQ are the problem, just like "Magic Find" in other games.

When you have limited content (a Map has X minions, etc), it ultimately boils down to 2 types of builds:
1 - Builds that can run full IIQ/R gear and still clear well
2 - Builds that can't.

When developers give you a huge tree with endless possibilities, but then give you a choice "Have fun with 1000 builds, or be efficient with 3" then it is purely bad design.

3) builds that clear faster than 1, but can still have MF.

E: the bad design part is that MF between sources multiplies

The bad design is MF itself.

Designing the end game around what build can sacrifice more gear for MF and STILL clear the map is just poor design.

Your "builds that clear faster than 1, but can still have MF" are inferior to full MF builds because you want Max return for your investment.
It doesn't matter if you kill faster if you're getting less for what you kill when there is a finite amount of things to kill.

Current design: Ability to Clear > MF > Clear Speed

Been playing for 3 yrs pretty steadily, never ran an MF build, and am consistently more than capable of rolling and fully equipping 3-6 builds per temp league cycle.

You may prefer the feeling of playing MF but it is by no means necessary to amass currency.

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Nurvus wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

IIR and IIQ are the problem, just like "Magic Find" in other games.

When you have limited content (a Map has X minions, etc), it ultimately boils down to 2 types of builds:
1 - Builds that can run full IIQ/R gear and still clear well
2 - Builds that can't.

When developers give you a huge tree with endless possibilities, but then give you a choice "Have fun with 1000 builds, or be efficient with 3" then it is purely bad design.

3) builds that clear faster than 1, but can still have MF.

E: the bad design part is that MF between sources multiplies

The bad design is MF itself.

Designing the end game around what build can sacrifice more gear for MF and STILL clear the map is just poor design.

Your "builds that clear faster than 1, but can still have MF" are inferior to full MF builds because you want Max return for your investment.
It doesn't matter if you kill faster if you're getting less for what you kill when there is a finite amount of things to kill.

Current design: Ability to Clear > MF > Clear Speed

Ya.. that's why my edit was in there. The bonus multiplying is the bad thing. There's diminishing returns on MF, and when in a group it's better to clear fast with decent/good MF, than it would be to go slower with max MF.

I have no problem with MF as a stat, but it shouldn't multiply the way it does.

My advice: play the current temporary leagues. You will get showered in loot due to all the rogue exiles, invasion bosses, ghosts and nemesis rares. It just feels right. Finally you'll put all those portals and wisdom scrolls to good use :) Luckily some guildmate could convince me to try them out. I'm glad I listened.

But it also made me realise that the loot of regular area bosses is somewhat lackluster. Most of the time they just drop a set of white and blue items. I would really improve their loottable in vanilla game.


It has already been proposed time and time again that IR and IIQ should have a less pronounced impact. Something I fully agree with.


EDIT: Of course my main motivation in playing this game is not the loot itself but the enjoyment that I get out of it. Slaying monsters in this game is very satisfying. I think, OP, that your main focus should shift to a build that you greatly enjoy and like playing. Items will come regardless.

So all the acumulated loot in the game is found by those few magic find builds? Then how does everybody else end up with anything? I found my best items with characters that had less than 50 IIR. All you need is the IIR gem on a culling skill to get the last hits on bosses and you can do fine.

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Nightstone13 wrote:

Been playing on and off for a while now. I really like the game and I always come back. But...

The loot system really has alot to be desired. With all the balancing going on in the last few years it has really effected the number of builds you can run and still get good loot.

So the choice is to play one of the multitude of builds listed in the forums and get pretty much crappy loot or go with one of the few builds that let you stack IIR/IIQ.

The loot is the carrot. Advancement and new stuff keeps me going.

Every new build I try gets old fast when the carrot is not there. So what if you can clear a map in record time. If your not being rewarded you lose interest fast...

Anyone else feel this way?

NS

GGG has said the economy is the most important part of the game for them, that's why it looks like drops suck. You aren't meant to to find your own upgrades, you are meant to find items that are good for other builds, sell them, then buy the upgrades for your own build. Sucks, but it is what it is.

People will tell you that you can play self-found in the trade leagues. What they are omitting is that it takes longer and is far less efficient than trading. You can buy better gear, with specific stats, for you gear, far more quickly and efficiently, than you could find on your own.

People have been asking for a self-found league for a LONG time. A league where you can find upgrades, rares and uniques, with the right stats for your build, without having to trade for them. Here's hoping GGG delivers. MF doesn't help you find upgrades, it only helps you drop more crap to sort through for the chance to find something to sell. So until GGG offers a SFL, you'll have to learn to trade, unfortunately.

The problem for me is I have an MF on kill of around %120 which in any normal sense of the term would suggest that I have over TWICE the chance of finding rare/unique items, but in all actuality, that doesn't seem to be the case. That is evidenced when you pop open a box with 1000 IIR mod on it and you still get most blues, some yellows and zero uniques.

With that %120, I can make 3 minute Dominus runs all day and find only 3-4 uniques for the day, and they are all TOTAL CRAP uniques. The currency I make off the runs themselvs is how I make money. Not some awesome T1 unique which will never drop with what is considered a "Paltry" %120 IIR and %0 IIQ.

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Shinare wrote:

That is evidenced when you pop open a box with 1000 IIR mod on it and you still get most blues, some yellows and zero uniques.

1000% of zero is still zero.

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mark1030 wrote:

1000% of zero is still zero.

Sorry of my PoE career right there.

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almostdead wrote:

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DeviantLightning wrote:

What somebody else has doesn't affect you. Not even in standard.

That's not true at all. Well, I guess if you play this game like it was a single player (solo self-found), then perhaps.

Still doesn't. Other people can get richer by trading, but it doesn't make you less rich if they get ahead. If anything, you come off better by far by trading than by solo self-found, even if somebody else has all the legacies ever.

And don't mention PVP either, because that shit is broken anyway and hardly anybody plays it.