A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

Sarcasm is not your forté i imagine.

And the other stuff is just how it is,we don't have a passive tree, we don't have the 2.0 mana drain value's of AA or mana reserve cost of clarity.

We don't know if skills are getting another mana cost rebalance.

We don't know if the witch area is getting higher % mana regen value's and the melee part of the tree might see some of them appear.

Meh, this is pointless since you guys are just dead set on shooting this concept down and calling nerf nerf out of fear.

Understandable, but still pointless and premature.

Peace,

-Boem-

And you have proven time and again that logic isn't your forté. None of what you said went over my head tone or substance. The fact that you think otherwise leads me to believe that my preexisting low estimation of you is still too high.

You're right. We don't have those values, but you know what we do have, that you seemingly don't? Basic knowledge of the game's mechanics.

It has been stated that ES with EB will not recharge when using mana. People who play efficiently use mana non stop in and out of combat. If you are not using a movement skill you are playing wrong. Therefore ES will NEVER recharge when playing efficiently.

Zealots Oath and Ghost Reaver are not viable options as a work around for casters because life casters need their leech and regen to affect...wait for it...their life.

The proposed EB simply does not work.

And like i pointed out, some multiple times by now, nothing is set in stone yet.

So yes this is all complete drivel.

And why exactly would i care about your estimation of me? All i see is a bit of slander in the hopes of making your point hold more weight, which results in exactly the opposite.

As to the game mechanics and knowing how they interact currently, i know them, i know you do to. Are they relevant to patch 2.0? Nope not in the slightest.

you are looking at 2.0 changes true 1.4 glaces only to assume shit will be broken and non-functional.

Instead of looking at these changes with an open mind and realizing there is more to it then is being showed/teased here.

All of your arguments so far are based on the fact that this change becomes a reality in a vacuum and that what is being teased here is the final version. Which any person with a sense of logic could tell you, will not be the case.

So if your aim was to insult me or attempt to insult me, you failed.

If your aim was to demonstrate how shortsighted you are and how you base your arguments on that shortsightedness, you succeeded.

Have a good one.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

LyonelNoale wrote:

So then how will this mechanic work, exactly? It basically just protects... my mana? In that sense, will this only work with MoM types of builds then, or is the ES over my mana accessible at all for skills?

What I'm wondering is, why not just nerf EB rather than change it's mechanic entirely? Why not just change it to something like, a lesser conversion rate? Such as remove all energy shield, and convert 50% of it into mana, etc.?

Now I'm so worried about my character... I'd only just managed to get it set up in a way that I like and now I have no idea what I'm going to do T_T

good lord GGG WHYYYYYY

well, GGG isnt exactly known for delicate ways to nerf/buff things. its kind of a seesaw thing. and I dont mean it as disrespect, its pretty hard balancing things like that, but it is what is- theyre good at diagnosing the problem, but their solutions sometimes are a bit weird.

Im not sure this kind of solution is optimal, so they might scrap this particular implementation if feedback is negative, just dont expect EB/MOM/AA combo to stay the same ;)

Wouldn't this bring quite huge mana issues for EB battery based mana-intensive builds?

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't this make characters able to infinitely sustain their mana pool if they have good leech + Ghost Reaver or good regen + Zealot's Oath?

i understand u are moving ES over mana instead of life....

the only way this would work properly is allowing some ES left over as a buffer for shielding mana for MOM.

-u are able to reserve auras over ES before mana.

-u would also have to make the hybrid es/life passive equal to good, if not best, life nodes.

-u would have to add mana regen to hybrid es/life passives.

if it does not function like this u are just nerfing EHP EB MoM builds. stop tryin to candy coat it cuz most ppl are not that stupid!!!

"

grepman wrote:

"

LyonelNoale wrote:

So then how will this mechanic work, exactly? It basically just protects... my mana? In that sense, will this only work with MoM types of builds then, or is the ES over my mana accessible at all for skills?

What I'm wondering is, why not just nerf EB rather than change it's mechanic entirely? Why not just change it to something like, a lesser conversion rate? Such as remove all energy shield, and convert 50% of it into mana, etc.?

Now I'm so worried about my character... I'd only just managed to get it set up in a way that I like and now I have no idea what I'm going to do T_T

good lord GGG WHYYYYYY

well, GGG isnt exactly known for delicate ways to nerf/buff things. its kind of a seesaw thing. and I dont mean it as disrespect, its pretty hard balancing things like that, but it is what is- theyre good at diagnosing the problem, but their solutions sometimes are a bit weird.

Im not sure this kind of solution is optimal, so they might scrap this particular implementation if feedback is negative, just dont expect EB/MOM/AA combo to stay the same ;)

I don't know if the forums have a 'tipping', 'upvoting' or 'liking' system to let people know you appreciate their post so I'll just say it: thanks for responding!

Having read some of the different reviews about the changes to EB/MoM/AA, I'll admit that I'm reluctantly starting to grow apprehensive about this new patch - in both a good and bad sort of sense. I like the idea of a change, but I dislike the concept of having to completely reconstruct a character that I worked so hard on - I'd basically have to start over from scratch, because it'd take me forever to afford some of the other uniques and expensive rares that are required for CI or Low life builds.

As long as I can run EB/MoM/AA, I think I'd be okay with that, since it's the focal point of my current and only build. I don't mind if it was nerfed, but I'm just worried that the new mechanic will make it unplayable...

Although I suppose we won't know until after Beta is finished~!

I would love for 'Mana Shield' to become an entirely different keystone though! That'd be really cool! It would also give Casters an even greater range of defensive options.

Its been said all ready if this nerf is to target cod/aa/eb builds do it in a way that directly affects those builds only not by wrecking eb for every one who needs high mana/regen.
E.g. reduce mon effectiveness or the flat reduction od aa.

This new eb is useless for casters who ned high regen. reaver wont help because life sustain is too important zo is no good for any rf build. The only way to make it work would be massive changes to mana cost/base/regen making skill spaming trivial reducing build choices

It might have some slight use for some niche phys lgoh+leech atttack build but in that case why not just use mana leech

Being able to reserv. 100% isnt a big deal since other than a cybil mom build i did when that was a thing every toon ive had reserves 95+% of mana any way

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grepman wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

its completely different, MoM and AA are forms of defense, while butchering EB will nerf them, those forms of defense are not all that EB does, and nowhere is it stated that the mana and mana regen of EB are the problem this is trying to solve, the only stated intention has been solving the mitigation of MoM and AA, everything else EB offers is just collateral damage.


edit: Its like saying tornado shot is op so we are cutting the physical damage of all bows by 50% and removing phys proj, and then saying bow damage and phys proj were the problem that was trying to be solved when bow users not using tornado start saying "wtf are you doing? Are you insane?"


bows and phys proj are not 'tornado shot' theyre a lot more than that

Eb is not MoM and AA, its a lot more than that.

I fail to understand your analogy. tornado shot does not provide you defenses. tornado shot problems are solely tornado shot problems. EB problems are EB problems.

EB is one keystone without any downsides besides losing the 50% stun protection and a potential ES pool, that provides you 1)mana, 2)mana regen, which then enables you to get defenses from AA and MoM.

your point, I think, is that the problem with EB is only defenses that benefit from it. I think that it was way too powerful already, and the defenses only made it extremely OP. why should any caster care about mana/manaregen nodes or reduced cost of skill nodes, if they're picking up EB ? it's too simple, too banal and too good.

its tough for AA and MoM to exist without EB- you actually have to INVEST in shit, which is the whole point.
on other hand EB can exist without AA and MoM just fine, just like it had before open beta introduced AA. clearly EB is the problem, not AA or MoM

your wrong.
I take eb AND
a ton of es nodes mana/regen nodes AND
lvl20 clarity AND
mana/es/regen on gear which i would rather use on def/dps all of this is to cast a 6l incinerate. Its far from trivial aa its just what alows me to survive ref

"

elitedesolator wrote:

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't this make characters able to infinitely sustain their mana pool if they have good leech + Ghost Reaver or good regen + Zealot's Oath?

You could already do this with 0 keystones. It's called a blood magic gem.

"

grepman wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

this change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB. if you think this change was done for any other reason, you're kidding yourself.

the quote from rory said that the problem was that MoM+AA was too much defense for too little investment and that this change seemed to solve that, so...

well I dont see how its different from what Ive said

EB provides too much mana and regen for very little investment. MoM benefits immensely from too much mana and AA does from too much mana regen, respectively. it was already sketchy when there was no MoM, and just AA, but with MoM and AA, EB is clearly too op. get like 500-600 es on gear and you gain a ton of mana, which is then scaled with int too.

And yet, without it, the investment and positions to increase mana to anywhere CLOSE to the same is incredibly high, to the point where maintaining a mana build will be seriously difficult.

The problems that this change affects without consideration of fixing are thus:

1. Caster builds have very, very few options for defense that don't incur insane point investment; eb with CoD is one of them, CI is the other. There are almost zero practical caster builds that rely on armor or evasion for defense (a few cheap evasion/dodge versions of incinerators exist, but they are not ideal; they are used because they are budget).

2. Arctic Armor is highly desirable for every character that can run it, and as a result of (1), this includes practically every caster build. There is a massive cross-over between MoM/CoD and arctic armor; both rely on high mana regeneration over anything else.

That's it.

The change to EB does not address either point. It simply makes it even more difficult for casters to get defenses. They still don't have other valid options, and both of those defensive options still rely on the same resource to function; any caster running CoD/MoM will still run max level AA, and visa versa to a lesser degree.

There is no problem that is being "fixed" by a change to EB; only new problems are being created. No specs gain from the change, and all caster specs lose (because they now need to find mana/mana regen elsewhere).

What should have happened an extremely long time ago is that pervasive body armors should have been much more heavily nerfed, and the resultant fallout in defenses should have been addressed. CoD is far too strong, but only in the context of MoM being essentially unavailable to the builds that would use it. The same is true to a lesser degree of Lightning Coil.

MoM and AA are incredibly strong defenses, but they are 1 and 2 in a field of 2.5 choices. Fix that problem, THEN think about changing EB.