A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

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elwindakos wrote:

Are you serious?Its not just aa,its the most likely COD that comes with it,that is above all current defences currently.In that way,yes it needs a change.

But again,are people annoyed cause their current meta wont work,or they dont like it mechanicly?I am more keen to my first opinion.

Though one thing is for sure,we cant know until we try

What is there to "knowing without trying" any monkey can see that all the current builds rellying on cod/aa are straight out of the window. What is there to test the numbers simply won't add up to you being able to sustain mom + aa in any reliable way imaginable, it's just purely taking away a major defensive combination out of the game entirely. If you see a company going bankrupt on a spreadsheet you don't need to "see the next month" to know whether it's bankrupt or not lol, basic maths numbers just simply won't add up making a large portion of current game builds wiped out. Now you'r gona reply, but maybe there will be something useful out of it, no there won't be. Any decent player is constantly using mana you don't just walk you whirling blade/lightning warp or cast abilities, so ES WILL NEVER recover, there will be entirely no point to it. Same as taking EB + Ghost reaver, who the hell would do that? so you convert your life leech to now sustain es a little bit, and in return what? you can only sustain your life with life on hit gem or life regen, so you need to go far into the right side of the tree, and than down to marauder duelist just to sustain life es+mana? lol no gtfo?

Rory could you re-write this? I think it´s hard to understand what it really does when i need to puzzle the information from different paragraphs. Thank you!

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elwindakos wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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DeathzStalkerz wrote:

As of now, wearing a CoD and getting EB is minimally enough to sustain a decent level AA.

but when AA is such a shit defense than even a lvl25 AA + inner force that takes a massive investment to sustain isnt even as good as wearing 5k armour which is considered absolutely awful what exactly is the problem with being able to run AA? You say that like its a bad thing.

People talk about AA like its actually good, its terrible, its so widely used because its literally the only thing most casters have open to them.

Are you serious?Its not just aa,its the most likely COD that comes with it,that is above all current defences currently.In that way,yes it needs a change.

But again,are people annoyed cause their current meta wont work,or they dont like it mechanicly?I am more keen to my first opinion.

Though one thing is for sure,we cant know until we try

ya Im serious man, its not above all other defenses at all, it doesnt even come anywhere close to being on par with dex and str defenses. Its widely used because casters are widely used and its near impossible to make a proper caster that can actually use other, better defenses properly.

Why are casters so widely used? Because of the way spells are easy to scale, that is it. Peoples perceptions are that needing a good weapon to do good dps = too much RNG for the start of a league so theres a massive draw towards casters. Its got nothing to do with COD + AA actually being some kind of op defense mechanism, its to do with damage scaling and the COD thing is just the best option they have after making that choice based on damage scaling. I think the reason people see it very strong is because its all they know, they dont really understand the wider game and what is possible with other defenses done properly.

I think this change would be good for the game in the long run since it allows them to increase the basic mana regen and lower mana costs of AA/Clarity/skills without EB totally breaking the game.

We will probably also see a shift in what build uses MoM, an idea that directly comes to mind is doing a claw reave build with EB/GR/MOM and reserve 100% mana for auras. With ghost reaver you will leach ES from the claw LL implic mod + those claw LL nodes right next to GR keystone.

To sustain life you use life gain on hit. Reave+MPD+LGOH+MultiS+the new fortify support.

100% mana reserved/100% fortify uptime and MoM seems very strong on paper.

Sounds like a great change (needs work obviously).

Atm every single life based caster gets eb.

This is much more interesting mechanically than current eb.

And one thing to note is more info has been posted of potential things they would need to tweak on reddit and spread around this thread so just reading the op wont fully represent it.

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BananaJams wrote:

I was thinking about this a little bit and I thought it might be interesting if you "flipped" Mana and ES.

The character would use mana first and then go into the ES pool second.

This way the mechanics of ES actually make a little more sense. Your mana would act as the pool for auras and what not and have the regular regen but if you run out of mana you would dip into the ES pool. Once your ES pool is depleted you would have to wait that recharge time but your mana would be continually regening on top of that just in case you had to cast your skill to quickly get out of a situation.

This way we still reduce the power of MoM and high regen but give casters who do not have leech a chance to utilize both pools more effectively. You would dip into ES only in high stress moments instead of always having a depleted ES pool.

What do you guys think?

Edit - I would support the change if it was like this

I am hoping this post doesn't get lost among all of the QQ I think its a pretty elegant solution.

What about casters that didn't used MoM, but used EB for mana regen? You have already killed elemental hit that even with EB nobody can sustain it. Totem and Trap users can't cast without investing in EB + mana regen nodes. With removal of manaregen benefit from EB you gonna kill all other skills. If you gonna introduce this change to the game, be ready to buff base mana regen or rebalance mana cost for each spell. Right now every caster uses EB for constant spellcasting and ability to run some auras.

What I really would like to know concerning the change to EB is whether mana costs of spells will be adjusted (as it was pointed out they are balanced around having huge mana pools because of EB).
Because to me as a rather casual and rather poor than rich player, the biggest reason to pick EB is not for using MoM or AA, it is because I couldn't sustain spells if I wouldn't pick EB. AA is a bonus I can afford due to the huge mana regen, but I need the regen more for the huge mana cost of spells than anything else. MoM is actually something I don't even want. I only have it on one character because of CoD and I only use the CoD because of the increased mana regen and the (for me) high ES for EB.

If the mana cost of spells are adjusted, so that EB is not mandatory to use the spells in the first place, then I wouldn't mind changing EB, as the changes would create new niche uses mentioned in this thread.


Concerning the EB+MoM/CoD+AA being too good as a defense for its cost, I rather think the culprit is AA and not MoM. Correct me if I am wrong, but I always looked at it this way:

What is achieveable even for casual players (like me) are stats like 3000 HP and 1000 ES. This basically gives you a life buffer of 4000. If you take EB and MoM, your EHP is basically 3000/0.7=~4200. You get the advantage of having more mana regen (especially Clarity becoming much easier to reserve), but the disadvantage of having to balance your aura reservation to actually have enough mana left to realize the theoretical EHP and needing to use extra points in the skill tree to actually get the two Keystones. For me this sounded like a reasonable trade-off. In my opinion the actual culprit is then AA, which basically gives the EB user free extra defensive stats and upsets the balance.

i do EB without MOM... that means u just make any builds like that useless

The reason casters go EB/MoM isn't because EB is some sort of magical uber defense (it doesn't hold a candle to Cast When Damage Taken/Immortal Call or Acrobatics). It's because Energy Shield alone is a really awful defense in a game where you constantly take damage unless you spec two nodes to turn it into a fake life pool and have absurd gear, and as a caster you have tons of int giving you a % ES bonus.

I hope Energy Shield base recharge time also gets a look in this patch for everyone, not just people speccing this node, because as is it just doesn't work.