SSF torment journey (warning, WOT inside)

When these current leagues came around Ive decided to play with an artificial constraint in torment.

there were several loosely defined reasons Ive had to do so:

1. to experience a 'fob' itemization from the groundup (ie from empty stash) self found, something I havent done for a long period since OB start (with invasion being sole exception, but I dont think I got past cruel in that league)
2. try to get a scolds bridle
3. prove that mapping solo and self found is completely and utterly more than viable at this point in the game's lifecycle
4. analyze the game's shortcomings from temp league perspective and reflect on that. also to compare and contrast experience Ive had being a noob on OB start compared to now.
5. analyze the current temp league feature and how it will affect the future leagues and how different it is from regular perma leagues

as this was SSF, there was no way I was playing bloodlines. this game is built on RNG and not having a ^(.*)gem|build-enabling-item|currency(.*) means a boatload of farming with no trading. so Torment it was.

Here are my findings, thoughts and description of my journey:

0. Build style

My casual is prolly too much for real casual style. I played about 1-2 hours almost every day, and a bit more/sometimes less on weekends. sometimes Id just log in to do a daily and thats it.

1. Build (decision and gameplay)

I made a templar and was deciding between ice nova and glacial cascade. At around end of normal I knew I was going to make a GC build. Initially this was an elemental build, but just like many people before me, Ive realized
in merciless that GC just scales much better with crit. A quarter of it is phys damage and it has initial 6% crit chance, and it prevents reflect damage better because of it being hybrid.

sometime into maps I wanted to have something to take heat off me, and I utilized shockwave totem into my build. It scaled from everything I was running - hatred, heralds, spell damage, cast speed, crit, spell damage.
its something I used to top it off. if anyone interesting full 90lvl skill tree right here:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUAAv4EBwSzBUIHHgj0CaoOSBGWFm8WvxcvGGoaOBzcHRQmlScvLJw6WDwFPV9BlkLDQ8hFnUlRSbFMs08EUDBSU1NSVUtVxlXWWAdd8l8qYeJjQ2SdZOdmnmjyakNrF20ZcFJw1XgvfOV_xoCkgh6Cm4PbidOLjIw2jmSPRo_6kFWTJ5UglS6XlZf0mjua4Juhn9-iAKKjpwismK6ztvq4k7zqwBrAVMBmwJrB89D11abXz9n82wvbXt-E42rr5Ovu6_XsOO0873zviPAf8NXyHfem99f5N_nd-tI=

its quite inefficient and would be better starting off as a witch, but whatevs. I actually ended up using a lot of regrets (more than 30) on this toon

AA and double curse are main features. warlords mark for leech and endurance charges, and assassins mark for crit + power charges. wish I dropped a CoD for MoM, but alas.

2. Leveling - what a blast

Except, it's not because it's terribly fun, but rather because - well, flameblast exists. This is bane of PoE and having no rigid class system. If you're a caster, there isn't a single better leveling spell in softcore than flameblast.
Flameblast is a sad joke, but it works so well you're doing yourself a huge disservice not using it. Once I got it, I didnt stop using it. Once I had my GC setup, I still ran a FB in a 3 link (prolif/echo).
Something is wrong when a full stacked 3link skill that youre not built for outperforms your main feature skill.

How leveling compares to OB: extremely favorable. in general with newer skills, masters (see next section) and a much better knowledge of the game, it was much easier.
How torment compared to STD/OB: ghosts, despite what you might hear, are absolutely amazing for getting upgrades on lower levels. They can also be quite deadly on lower levels, but thats for another section.
Overall, there is no way that you end up like my first ever character, in cruel, overleveled with blue junk, getting owned by hailrake.

What they did right: Ghosts are a great addition to leveling routine, as were the masters. Leveling feels less of a chore.
Suggested Improvements: Flameblast HAS to go. It's too good any way you slice it.
Future Outlook: leveling to me, is one of the worst aspects of PoE because of no class specific skills. you just use what your general direction feels most powerful. I dont know of a way to fix/improve this greatly, but it's something to think/consider.
I feel GGG are on a right path in general.

3. Masters

Masters play a huge role in leveling/new leagues and/or economy. 3 Masters dailies provide you with a very good supply of GCPs. Zana provides you with free high level maps once you start mapping. Uniques at level 8 !
For solo/self found, they're extremely important source of plain GEMS. And, of course, discount rate of currency conversion.

In fact, I'd say masters besides Zana take too little time leveling to 8.

What they did right: Masters really improve the experience from the get-go. I actually think most missions and masters are in a good place right now.
Suggested Improvements: I am a big opponent of 'mapping for everyone'. Zana is too good for her own sake. The mapception is already very good, and dailies only sweeten the deal. This in general is a problem of high level maps too accessible, but
mapping goes MUCH faster with Zana. Increase the time needed to level masters other than Zana, just a bit.
Future Outlook: I dont expect more master improvement in the future. I think the lvl 8 master shuffle has to go though.

4. Recipes

Chisel recipe along with chaos/regal is one of the most important recipes in SSFL, in my opinion. As such, I've never ran out of chisels, and I started chiseling maps as I usually do, 73+
GCP recipe coupled with masters makes it trivial to get 20/20 gems with enough time invested
On lower levels, whetstone/scrap recipe is useful

What they did right: not much to say, I think recipes are easier than ever nowadays.
Suggested Improvements: as much as I think the wiki model is the right one, the NAMED recipes need a re-hash. No one is keeping tabs on named rare items in dozens of stash tabs. Yet when I load up procurement it can tell me all the chance recipes
extremely fast. So, we need similar system in game for NAMED recipes or remove them, imo.
I would also go with back to only rock breakers being used for chisel recipe, because its waay to easy to never run out of chisels, and subsequently, get better map drops
Future Outlook: I think recipes wont get much makeover, if any.

5.Mapping

As expected, mapping was extremely easy this time around and cannot compare to the mapping famine that was OB. People who complained about sustaining maps either have ADD or cant deal with RNG.
As usual, pre-77 strategy was chisel (73+), transmute and alt to magic/pack size. Id throw a regal on 75 occasionaly.
77+ is chisel + alch/chaos to magic/pack/high quantity

What they did right: um, not much to me
Suggested Improvements: There needs to be a system to reduce a power creep, and it NEEDS to start with map availability. You're not supposed to sustain 77+ maps. As is, we went from one end of spectrum to another.
Future Outlook: I think GGG tries to softly change the maps to be obtainable in harder way. Of course I expect usual suspects start to whine about map sustainablity.

6. Drops

I don't do MF farming, so my best drops werent that great. Currency-wise my biggest drop was one exalt. But I definitely got enough of all other currencies besides eternals/mirrors.

Uniques- got , got lucky with a vaal on :



and few items that arent as common as dirt -
of course, none of them were useful for my build
got a few decent rares as well, but overall nothing I havent seen in standard (and Im poor by standard standards :)

7. RNG

RNG is RNG, about what I expected. Ghost RNG (ie 'challenge') was probably the only one where I raised an eyebrow.
Now I dont mind something being extremely rare. But that smuggler thing is so rare I dont see much of a purpose of it in the game unless its GOOD.
that ghost isnt exalt-good.
I've gotten around 10 cartos in maps by comparison.

Funny RNG tidbits ('challenge'-related):
1. I didnt get the zana unique challenge till yesterday (and it dropped me the hegemony staff)
2. echoing and skeletal shrine I couldnt get for a while and then got them on same day
3. I was provided all maps but oba's and vaal temple for the 'challenge'. I couldnt do atziri (l2p issues, see next section), didnt attempt to roll vaal temple and poorjoys got opened by zana when I didnt even have AA so I got REKT

8. Atziri-stuff

Well I tried Atziri a couple of times, and both times I couldn't make it past the trio. Sad-fucking-face. Disclaimer is I did Atziri only a handful of times before. My negative -48% chaos res is what gets me killed even with dusktoe as I live the
chaos dude for the end.

Fragment-farming: encountering some cartos in lower maps, I corrupted them and I actually liked that idea. running lower level maps with some crazy mobs for a chance to get a fragment is nice. too bad corrupting museum maps and instance reloading
is just easier and faster.

What they did right: corrupted bosses chance of fragments is very nice.
Suggested Improvements: somehow make it impossible to instance-detect reload. I know, I know, tough to ask
Future Outlook : Atziri farming is not as active now, but its still fun to do and a welcome change from mapping; I think atziri runs and uber atziri runs will stay as one of things to do in the game.

9. Ghosts

I like ghosts a lot. I expect a lot of people in one months league who played BL to rip from ghosts on lower levels. Ghosts give you a ton of rarity, but they are sneakily powerful when you arent a dps king in normal.

However, ghost AI is downright retarded. Also, ranged just own melee again for ghost purposes. Sometimes a dangerous ghost near a dangerous mob you want to kill right away. good luck with that in melee.

What they did right: exporting rarity to external encounters like ghosts was an elegant way to push away from the MF paradigm. really liked it
Suggested Improvements: ghost AI needs a major boost. they are behaving like dominating blow-n zombies right now. simply unacceptable
Future Outlook : I think ghosts will suprise people in std and bloodlines, those who havent experienced it. when a ghost gets inside a rare in a unique map and then....looot EXPLOSION that many people on here love.

10. SSFL problems:

My drops should tell you why SSFL is a very handicapping option of playing PoE. You can have all uniques in the game not be helpful to your build. I didnt get an AA drop till like maps, which made my toon a fully glass cannon.
Yet SSFL QoL is undoubtedly 10 times better than with OB release.

11. CONCLUSION:

I enjoyed this experience a lot. No, I did not get a scolds (used up all my chances and scours, guess Ill have to buy it in std for a million exalts).
No, I probably won't be doing this or a temp league in general again- I'm comfortable in standard. However, I feel like PoE is more noob and ssfl-friendly than ever to start from scratch in temp league.
Some of it is good, some of it (like maps out of control) is bad imo. I do think the game is faster and more dps-driven than ever, for better or worse. But the gap between a nolifer and a casual player is definitely narrower in temp leagues.

thanks for the reading. the one and half people who ended up reading this wall of text get a cookie.

bah, note to self: notepad++ to forum text is NOT a seamless copy paste :(

Nice feedback,also useful - I'll have to try FB for levelling before it gets nerfed ;-)
Mostly agree with you, except when you say that maps lvl77+ are not supposed to be sustainable, even if you play them right(chisel,alch,chaos); they should imho.

And thx for the cookie !

"

Wazz72 wrote:

Nice feedback,also useful - I'll have to try FB for levelling before it gets nerfed ;-)
Mostly agree with you, except when you say that maps lvl77+ are not supposed to be sustainable, even if you play them right(chisel,alch,chaos); they should imho.

And thx for the cookie !

FB was just nerfed 20% at all levels just FYI.

The problem with 77+ not being sustainable is people lose the willingness to play without sustaining as they have already gotten used to it, especially with a league like ambush that added cartoboxes that were insane. If 77+ isn't sustainable people either quit or make another character.

I also played a 100% self found char in torment and for pretty much the same reasons, it was an armor/endurance tendril tank templar.

Conclusions were also pretty much the same, it's a much smoother ride than it used to be. The biggest problem for me turned out to be gems, my luck failed me completely there, masters help a bit with that but their selection is kinda limited so I ran until merci merveil with just lightning penetration and tendrils in a +1 to lightning gems wand. Thankfully, tendrils are strong and not too support-hungry so lack of supports wasn't a big problem. Also, I haven't got my CwDT setup until well past level 70, shitty luck again.

Another thing about levelling is the one GGG acknowledges, gem slots make swapping gear often a pain in the ass once your gems settle down. When playing self-found you'd expect to find better stuff and swap all the time because, no use hiding it, you're wearing crap, but thanks to slots that doesn't really happen.
While on gearing, masters help a bunch with taking care of resists, many players find capping them extremely annoying so it's a good thing.

Mapping wasn't a problem, as long as you don't run your maps white you will settle in 74-5 range, which is perfectly fine, masters help with this too.

So, yeah, self-found is much more viable now than before, at least for casters, attackers are doomed to crap dps until they get lucky. Thanks to masters they don't have to get quite so lucky as before but they still need to find a fairly good item to work with which can be kinda hard considering 99% of drops are utter crap.

"

Wazz72 wrote:

Nice feedback,also useful - I'll have to try FB for levelling before it gets nerfed ;-)
Mostly agree with you, except when you say that maps lvl77+ are not supposed to be sustainable, even if you play them right(chisel,alch,chaos); they should imho.

And thx for the cookie !

its insane. you get a +1 fire gem wand/shield/staff and its GG

I guess that's my problem with leveling in PoE- in other arpgs when you pick up a new class/build, you usually get new skill to level with, because well, class rigidity and build rigidity- you have to invest in the skill

poe's system is if you want to level fast, you have to pick a skill that is the best at clearing, not the one you're actually building around. yes, GGG has tried to buff/nerf some of the best/worst offenders, but in general some builds just dont come around till like the late 60s/early 70s and youre best off using op stuff like FB

"

raics wrote:

I also played a 100% self found char in torment and for pretty much the same reasons, it was an armor/endurance tendril tank templar.

Conclusions were also pretty much the same, it's a much smoother ride than it used to be. The biggest problem for me turned out to be gems, my luck failed me completely there, masters help a bit with that but their selection is kinda limited so I ran until merci merveil with just lightning penetration and tendrils in a +1 to lightning gems wand. Thankfully, tendrils are strong and not too support-hungry so lack of supports wasn't a big problem. Also, I haven't got my CwDT setup until well past level 70, shitty luck again.

Another thing about levelling is the one GGG acknowledges, gem slots make swapping gear often a pain in the ass once your gems settle down. When playing self-found you'd expect to find better stuff and swap all the time because, no use hiding it, you're wearing crap, but thanks to slots that doesn't really happen.
While on gearing, masters help a bunch with taking care of resists, many players find capping them extremely annoying so it's a good thing.

Mapping wasn't a problem, as long as you don't run your maps white you will settle in 74-5 range, which is perfectly fine, masters help with this too.

So, yeah, self-found is much more viable now than before, at least for casters, attackers are doomed to crap dps until they get lucky. Thanks to masters they don't have to get quite so lucky as before but they still need to find a fairly good item to work with which can be kinda hard considering 99% of drops are utter crap.

yeah, gems are actually a pain in the ass when playing self found. like Ive said, I had no defenses AND no AA till like maps or end of merciless. needless to say, I had more deaths on this toon than any other toon Ive played.

agreed on gem slots. thats why I think best strategy is just not bothering that much with links/colors and just get it done at end of merciless while you hoard chromes/jewelers

also agreed on masters and resists. I forgot to talk about crafting, but definitely- getting that extra resist, or mana regen % or extra attribute (so dont have to waste a node) its definitely a HUGE plus.

"

grepman wrote:

"

Wazz72 wrote:

Nice feedback,also useful - I'll have to try FB for levelling before it gets nerfed ;-)
Mostly agree with you, except when you say that maps lvl77+ are not supposed to be sustainable, even if you play them right(chisel,alch,chaos); they should imho.

And thx for the cookie !

its insane. you get a +1 fire gem wand/shield/staff and its GG

I guess that's my problem with leveling in PoE- in other arpgs when you pick up a new class/build, you usually get new skill to level with, because well, class rigidity and build rigidity- you have to invest in the skill

poe's system is if you want to level fast, you have to pick a skill that is the best at clearing, not the one you're actually building around. yes, GGG has tried to buff/nerf some of the best/worst offenders, but in general some builds just dont come around till like the late 60s/early 70s and youre best off using op stuff like FB

Poe has always had the problem if getting to endgame fast being a priority, if it isn't flamneblast it was searing bond or spectral throw, or whatever, people want to get to endgame as fast as possible because you have a better shot of finding something valuable, plus technically your "wasting" time by taking your time.

GGG has added recipes to help racers, but those same recipes help when leveling as spells, naturally people want the quickest option, so GGG can continue to nerf flameblast if they want (terrible idea IMO) or they can accept that flameblast, firetrap, lightning tentrilis, arc, insert spell here will be used to level characters that there endgame goal is not to use spells but some other build\skills.

As long as GGG sticks to this gem\skill system they will forever have this "issue" with people using things just to level faster, rather then everything being on equal ground throughout.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

"

Wazz72 wrote:

Nice feedback,also useful - I'll have to try FB for levelling before it gets nerfed ;-)
Mostly agree with you, except when you say that maps lvl77+ are not supposed to be sustainable, even if you play them right(chisel,alch,chaos); they should imho.

And thx for the cookie !

its insane. you get a +1 fire gem wand/shield/staff and its GG

I guess that's my problem with leveling in PoE- in other arpgs when you pick up a new class/build, you usually get new skill to level with, because well, class rigidity and build rigidity- you have to invest in the skill

poe's system is if you want to level fast, you have to pick a skill that is the best at clearing, not the one you're actually building around. yes, GGG has tried to buff/nerf some of the best/worst offenders, but in general some builds just dont come around till like the late 60s/early 70s and youre best off using op stuff like FB

Poe has always had the problem if getting to endgame fast being a priority, if it isn't flamneblast it was searing bond or spectral throw, or whatever, people want to get to endgame as fast as possible because you have a better shot of finding something valuable, plus technically your "wasting" time by taking your time.

GGG has added recipes to help racers, but those same recipes help when leveling as spells, naturally people want the quickest option, so GGG can continue to nerf flameblast if they want (terrible idea IMO) or they can accept that flameblast, firetrap, lightning tentrilis, arc, insert spell here will be used to level characters that there endgame goal is not to use spells but some other build\skills.

As long as GGG sticks to this gem\skill system they will forever have this "issue" with people using things just to level faster, rather then everything being on equal ground throughout.

agreed, I just think it couldve been a bit different if some gems/skills were restricted to some classes or something like that.

right now, this is a side effect of the 'any class can use any gem' policy. this is another topic completely, but I keep feeling that policy is giving more side effects than actual meaningful choices right now; it effectively gimps melee, and on other hand, as time goes, each class becomes more specialized anyway- no more bow witches or duelist trappers in todays poe. but, this is probably outside the scope of this discussion :)

"

5.Mapping

As expected, mapping was extremely easy this time around and cannot compare to the mapping famine that was OB. People who complained about sustaining maps either have ADD or cant deal with RNG.
As usual, pre-77 strategy was chisel (73+), transmute and alt to magic/pack size. Id throw a regal on 75 occasionaly.
77+ is chisel + alch/chaos to magic/pack/high quantity

What they did right: um, not much to me
Suggested Improvements: There needs to be a system to reduce a power creep, and it NEEDS to start with map availability. You're not supposed to sustain 77+ maps. As is, we went from one end of spectrum to another.
Future Outlook: I think GGG tries to softly change the maps to be obtainable in harder way. Of course I expect usual suspects start to whine about map sustainablity.

<rage>

well i'd certainly like to feel how fking easy it is to sustain 77-78s now. But yeah, maybe rolling pack size/more magic + 70-80q and adding ambush/domination (that's what I did when I was playing bloodlines after I went down to 10 78s from 30) is not yet enough to get a single 77-78 map drop?
Call it bad rng or w/e you want but I don't believe in this bs anymore and I'm not the first person to have this kind of problem. Oh, did I mention that I have had to grind 70-71s (with the shittiest rolls possible just to get high quantity) up to 89 lvl on bloodlines? fun times

</rage>

sorry, I get mad everytime I see someone saying how easy to sustain are maps now. I guess I should've quit this game already as after so much time played everything including surviving on hc became pure gamble for me

ok, now the other things I disagree with

"

In fact, I'd say masters besides Zana take too little time leveling to 8

I see no reason they should take more time, it is fine imo as-is right now (talking about solo ofc). This game is all about temp leagues, not standard. I also disagree with what you wrote about zana

"

I would also go with back to only rock breakers being used for chisel recipe, because its waay to easy to never run out of chisels, and subsequently, get better map drops

It was changed for a reason, and the reason was that no one was doing this recipe. Reverting it would make this recipe useless yet again

meh, I think I agree with everything else