Stringing on the Kickstarter customer, or Why this game needs to die
" It's completely understandable then why you would take your current position. Ignorance of promises past does not make them not exist, however. They had a dev manifesto, if anyone can still find it. The big ideas that were touted to the early supporters and have since been reneged are: - Difficult, strategic gameplay at all levels. - Virtually impossible to hit max level. - Cutthroat environment, including loot tension. - Meaningful player choice in build and limited or non-existent respecs. - No legacy items unless completely unavoidable, and uniques were never BiS. - No power treadmill on new itemization (new items roughly equal to old, not >> old). - Using currency orbs before the endgame would never be strictly suboptimal. - "Dark" and/or serious art style, including ruined or desolate imagery. I don't know how to look at this and not see them losing their way or not shifting the goal posts. | |
"fair enough. Id like to take a look at the link of original manifesto as well. but sure, this list works as a starting point I feel like a lot of items from that list were evolutionary choices, such as 'virtually impossible to hit max level'. at OB beginning, it was kinda like that. then people cried and cried about map drops and such. same with power treadmill. difficult, strategic gameplay- that was a bullshit promise in an ARPG that Im not sure how was to be kept. theres nothing difficult or strategic in any arpg out there. cutthroat and legacy- those are valid points. legacy decisions were quite mind-boggling meaningful player choices- I think this promise was kept. dark art style- more or less kept currency orbs before endgame suboptimal- that is kinda in between. a lot of common currency use isnt suboptimal. hoarding works, but with abundance of recipes you really raise clearspeed in the beginning. and if youre racing, its vital | |
" all duly noted. however, I would argue that a lot of these are features are supplementary. obviously, quite important to you, but something like paid private leagues/perma cutthroat were distant ideas even when they were promised. like Ive said, you're never getting full features promised in a KS game. Sometimes you get half a game for 10x price the devs asked. GGG is far ahead of the KS curve. " the thing is, I feel like you genuinely enjoyed the game when it was in OB and then in release. the evolution, or lack of evolution in a specific direction is what bothers you, as far as I can tell. it's a bit different from 'they promised x and they lied', imo. Last edited by grepman on Mar 2, 2015, 3:58:06 PM
| |
|
I got tired of waiting. Can't say I wasn't patient.
That's the whole core of the OP. I'm not the only one who's been strung along waiting for GGG to do the things it said it would, only to see the game slowly go in an opposite direction. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
|
|
" This is absolutely still the case. Anyone who says the game is too easy or lacks strategy hasn't taken a look at a hardcore ladder recently. The fact that this game, like every other ARPG ever, encourages use of a single primary skill does not invalidate the strategic gameplay. If you want to stay alive in PoE, knowledge/strategy is the key. " It IS virtually impossible to hit max level. It's only been done by 222 characters since the start of OB. The fact that the very best and most dedicated players can do it in 1-2 months of nolifing doesn't change that level 100 is "virtually impossible". " As far as gameplay was concerned, the FFA loot timer system was complete ass. Made for absolutely awful gameplay in a party, and only a very tiny minority (and definitely NOT all the CB supporters) enjoyed it. It seems as if cutthroat league will eventually be a thing, too. " Not sure what you're getting at here other than that GGG grants a passive respec every new expansion/passive tree update. This game certainly still has meaningful player choice in build. " Agree that legacy items are a mistake - GGG needs to be a bit more careful to test uniques before introducing. The QQ about shavs etc is baseless: " " As far as rares go, this has held true. As far as uniques go, it's just nice to see some uniques that are more than vendor trash. " Agree that there is a lot of missed potential in the currency/crafting system, though Forsaken Masters helped this greatly. " Outside of a few optional MTX skins and effects, this still holds true. Don't run around with Seraph Wings if you want a consistent & darker art style. " I don't know how to look at this without just seeing baseless QQ. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70 on Mar 2, 2015, 3:35:29 PM
| |
|
Oh, and the funny thing is I still enjoy theorycrafting PoE. I just know better now than to believe I'll enjoy actually playing the build after I plan it. Challenge is gone, loot tension doesn't exist, no cutthroat, and an overly unique-based itemization.
Idk, maybe I could get into racing. Other than that, if I actually played a build, my sole motivation would be to publicize it to paint a giant "nerf me" sign on its ridiculous mechanics. Drongo style. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Mar 2, 2015, 3:40:19 PM
|
|
" theorycrafting is almost always more fun than actual journey through your build in PoE. I have fun mindlessly grinding, but theorycrafting is that ONE thing that really gets me excited. when new tree is released I often spend an hour or two just starting at it after working. of course, since we know the game so well and since online community is huge, its unlikely there will be a ton of original builds found. "the simpsons already did it". so obviously theorycrafting might not be AS enjoyable as it was before (but still very fun). I remember combining dom blow and my summon build together in OB and thinking that was THE SHIT. was excited as hell for that. | |
" A 65 page death penalty thread doesn't exist if this was true. There's challenges and they come in many forms. It's literally the only thing keeping me here as I have a high level toon, races bore me, I would play hearthstone if I wanted PVP, I've beaten uber atziri, I've done just about all this game can offer yet still find interesting challenges. " Ya, it does suck that this has gone away. I'd still prefer semi allocation w/ a hostile system but you can't blame them for changing their minds on it. The only topic more hotly debated than desync in the existence of the game was loot allocation in CB, when the community was a fraction the size it is now. " Again, not true. Tornado shot is one of the most popular builds and there's no required uniques but each will make the build different in some way. Rat's nest gives good DPS but some prefer the EHP from a rare, shit I saw a high 90s video from beyond where a guy used three dragons to get shock stacks off HoA. The chest is completely up for debate, it's also a build where many people even just use a good rare. Some builds go with drillneck, many use a rare. Some use atziri's steps, many use a good rare. Mali's might be the only one that's dominant but I've seen HC builds using rare gloves. This is the modern build. Honestly. Kaoms and Shavs don't rule the chest slot, rare chests are filtering in because of the popularity of evasion, lightning coil has gone down in popularity because of it's nerf. Daresso's defiance is making it's way in. Cloak of defiance is still popular but LL w/o shavs is becoming more popular too. I can't think of one non-chest unique besides mali that dominates it's slot. No weapon rules all, rare weapons really have taken over, even if a non-mirrored item economy. Aegis and rathpith don't rule the shield slot like previously. Alpha howl is way less popular. I can't think of any jewelry that's auto-include, shit with flask changes even dream frag isn't required for ES based builds. Chayulas have gone from 1 ex to 1c, many builds not even bothering. Uniques at this time are being used exactly for what they are meant for, to make the build different and interesting. Most cases they are used for extra damage in a slot that isn't easy to get damage from (rat's nest, abyssus) or a way to get more damage than other options (mali). Even powerful uniques like drillneck, what that did was make pierce as appealing an option as chain, now even pierce builds w/o drillneck are popping up. The game with regards to uniques, has probably never been more balanced. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 Last edited by Moosifer on Mar 2, 2015, 4:35:02 PM
| |
"Eh. Good point. I feel a bit bad about saying "challenge is gone" because it's hyperbole; "not enough challenge" is better. There's a continuum of sorts regarding skill in the actual gameplay of games like these. On one extreme you have unavoidable hits, large swarms, and a heavy reliance on stats and spam to survive; on the other end you have telegraphed moves, smaller groups of enemies, and consequences gear can't save you from if you mess up. I feel like PoE is currently too gear/spam dependent at the moment. Despite things like EB+CI vs Atziri; although that's a perfect example of things going right, not enough of the game is like that. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Mar 2, 2015, 4:37:22 PM
|
|
" So GGG is responsible for players choosing to take the easy way out of any given situation? Huh? There are plenty of ways to challenge yourself in this game. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard |
