Counter-attack gems - have they solved any problem?

this is some kind of 'reverse-manifesto'

3 new counter-attack gems were added to 1.3.

But from what I see after playing few respeced chars into maps i have to say:

"

Counter-attack gems did not solve any of the long list of survivability issues melee players have.

I do not know what was their intended goal nor do i know if new gems are coming.

However what these new gems DO is: damage. Automated damage. Each time i AFK while playing and come back to see my char surrounded by few bodies i think to myself: wow, game plays itself, so what am i needed for?


Sure, there are utility uses for these

These work quite well as free leech (that in most cases means nothing as people are already capped), free stun/knockback/blind (kindof - stun requires links as 2L CA gem most probably wont stun anything, knockback is annoying, only blind is worth the link slot), free charge generation with PCoC or ECoMS. There is also my fav: CoMK + Molten Shell

By the looks of it these utilities are functional and definitely make character stronger.


However.. was that a problem for melee?

It wasnt. Pretty much all these utility perks were available (also in auto-form) via CwDT or CoS. Auto-curse is ofc also possible (and preferred) with Herald of Thunder. Sadly - melee needed something else, something to "avoid taking ludicrous damage not to pretend one likes taking damage". Bloodlines mods - deadly for melee. Does any of these 3 gems help to deal with these? IN ANY WAY? Because i do not think so.


To add bit of salt these gems further make Everything >>> 2H

there are 3 gems:
1h + shield - all 3
DW - 2/3
2H - 1/3

one can say that 2H has highest 'per hit' damage so the real dps of Vengeance is the highest for 2H. True. But does it make any significant difference? If these gems are for utility - and it seems that these are - then having 3 procs is much better than having 1 proc. the damage is irrelevant anyways as the white mobs are 1KO anyway.


TL;DR:

I really would like to read a Dev Manifesto on these gems. As these are not a solution to melee problems. I'd like to know what the problem these are solution to is.

I believe they are supposed to help melee by providing damage when your built defensively, giving players the ability to build very defensively and still have some damage to speak of ...

"

sidtherat wrote:

one can say that 2H has highest 'per hit' damage so the real dps of Vengeance is the highest for 2H. True. But does it make any significant difference? If these gems are for utility - and it seems that these are - then having 3 procs is much better than having 1 proc. the damage is irrelevant anyways as the white mobs are 1KO anyway.

I agree with everything you're saying, but remember that riposte and the other blocking gem don't work with 2h weapons. So at the very least, 2h got screwed. Oh and don't forget: riposte doesn't work on a dex character unless you turn him into an armor/str character. Lol.

Not to mention, if you're going to stack block anyways how do these gems help that scenario at all? You have the same survivability before these gems as after.

As for getting damage on your reactive gem, I don't think many players are going to 6L their riposte or vengeance. Just saying.

They did add one item that makes melee more manageable though:
for respeccing those wasted points into not melee.

They could 'work' if they didn't require 3 or 4 link and gave intrinsic functionality* (knocback, freeze, additional leech, etc..). But in this socket starved environment that is already full of must-have setups? no...

(* inb4 someone claims OPness - melee sucks, it needs some opness love)

All you guys were talking here for over a month was how crit damage is superior to non-crit damage and how melee/RT suck because of crit/ranged damage. You asked for damage - you got damage, fair enough.

These trigger gems actually make a nice addition to my PVP spec, I like them.

I run a crit build and to some extent Reckoning helps my defense a bit:

- it is automatic and has very low cooldown
- if it crits it will freeze / one-shot most regular mobs in the game, and help prevent me getting swarmed or stun-locked
- it helps me generate power charges very easily - so much so that I respecc'd into getting an extra power charge and changed my bandit rewards so that I can run with 5 Power Charges. I link my Reckoning with Inc. Crit Chance + PCOC + Culling Strike. So the more I block the more my damage rises. This is great for my build because it is flexible to play at range or melee. I like this a lot because it is automatic and I do not have to use curses or anything to get the power charges - if I am on an easy map where I am not blocking I don't get the PCs that much, but on Atziri run or 78 maps I easily can run around with 5 power charges
- I added Cull so I can get rid of enemies quickly - works great

If you are not using Bringer of Rain - this gem gives you the opportunity to have some Blind applications.

Does this help melee recover from the massive nerfs? Of course not. But it helps a little. Riposte is more of a PVP gem. I do not have any experience with Vengeance.

I'm using Vengeance + Stun + ECoMS on a 2h mace Marauder.
Once I'm getting a life leech or an additional melee physical damage gem, I'll also add one of those. When I manage to 5L my maul, I'll probably even add both.

Currently the only thing it does is:
Reset the EC timer to 10 seconds.
Stun monsters for a splitsecond.
Deal ok...ish AoE damage.

Also tried "Curse on Hit", but the cooldown is too long for this to have a significant effect.

Is Vengeance "helping"?
Sure, it doesn't do anything negative.
Execpt costing sockets, but I currently don't have enough useful gems to fill them all anyways.

Does it "solve the issues of 2h melee combat"?
Of course not, but I was never too conviced that these "issues" are that grave.

I have reckoning + leech + conc effect in my weapon. Since its the only leech I have, it is very nice and free damage is always welcomed.

I absolutely hate how melee got nerfed - but at the end of the day it is what it is. So we either cry or make use of what we have to improve our builds.

"

Ceryneian wrote:

I absolutely hate how melee got nerfed - but at the end of the day it is what it is. So we either cry or make use of what we have to improve our builds.

I don't know about rest of melee but I'm running BoR + Aegis in the new HC league and I'm doing fine. I still got up to 66/50 block and I have 4% more on tree I still plan to grab. With new counter attack gems, I have more damage than would have in the last leagues.