Clarification on Fire Penetration

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Ludvator wrote:

"more" but only in case enemy has exactly 0 resist

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

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Skywalkerfx wrote:

Penetration always works on the monsters capped resistance which is assumed to be no higher than 75%.

So if you have 25% fire penetration you will deal an additional 25% fire damage because the fire penetration lowers the max resist to 50%.

Not to be confused with the flammability curse which lowers resistance against the monsters total overcapped fire resistance (assumed to be no higher than 150%) which gets you no additional damage until you force the overcapped resistances below 75%.

If you want to know the interaction of flammability with fire penetration, I suggest you read the wiki.

My question did not include flammability as I know perfectly well the difference between curses and penetration. Thanks for making sure, though.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

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Natharias wrote:

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

umm, more of what?
are we still talking about "more" in terms of PoE mechanics?

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Natharias wrote:

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

No. By your logic, every stage of incinerate or flameblast is a multiplier, but it's not, their sum is a multiplier.
It's the same for resistances, resistance is a multiplier which is a sum of all resistance modifiers and penetration is just another resistance modifier.

Can't we just do the math?
25% pen and a 100 fire damage hit.
Mob with 75% res will take 25 damage, with pen 50 damage. 100% more.
Mob with 50% res will take 50 damage, with pen 75 damage. 50% more.
Mob with 25% res will take 75 damage, with peb 100 damage. 33.33% more.
Mob with 0% res will take 100 damage, with pen 125 damage. 25% more.
Mob with -50% res will take 150 damage, with pen 175 damage. 16.66% more....

Math? What math. **** math, I go with my opinions, which are clearly wrong. But okay.

100 * 1.25 = 125.
125 - 100 = 25.

Therefore.
50 - 25 = 25
25 * 1.25 = 50.

See. It's only 25% More!

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Ludvator wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

umm, more of what?
are we still talking about "more" in terms of PoE mechanics?

I'm talking about a spell's base damage.

Spell does X damage. X damage is altered by resistances. Resistances are altered by Fire Penetration. Therefor Fire Penetration offers the same modifier regardless of resistances.

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

No. By your logic, every stage of incinerate or flameblast is a multiplier, but it's not, their sum is a multiplier.
It's the same for resistances, resistance is a multiplier which is a sum of all resistance modifiers and penetration is just another resistance modifier.

I just got out of a D&D session so I don't think I'm reading this right, but I think you worded it differently than you wanted too.

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Natharias wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

If it is more in any case then it will be more in all cases.

Enemy resistance is 0%, lowered to -30% by penetration. That's 30% more.

Enemy resistance is 75%, lowered to 45% by penetration. That's 30% more.

No. By your logic, every stage of incinerate or flameblast is a multiplier, but it's not, their sum is a multiplier.
It's the same for resistances, resistance is a multiplier which is a sum of all resistance modifiers and penetration is just another resistance modifier.

I just got out of a D&D session so I don't think I'm reading this right, but I think you worded it differently than you wanted too.

Maybe. Ok, let's try like this:
You hit a monster, monster has some base resistance, is under the influence of purity but is also cursed with ele weakness and you hit it with a skill supported by penetration.

So the damage you inflict will be multiplied by a sum of (base + purity - curse - penetration), which means penetration can act as a multiplier only if (base + purity - curse) is zero, which is a special case.

It's actually very similar to how added damage works, if you got just hatred it acts as a multiplier to your displayed dps. However, if you also got added fire it's not a multiplier anymore. 'Added damage' category is a multiplier and hatred, added fire or herald are parts of that multiplier.

@Natharias

it gives you the same modifier but its effectivness is relative to monster resists.. So it depends on monsters natural resists as well as on resist reducing effects applied by players´ skills. Have a look at BackwoodsS´s post, cant be more clear..

but every "more/less" modifier in game gives you exactly more/less of whatever it is affecting, no matter what other mods/buffs you or monsters have