Optimized WoE + BoR dual strike duelist [1.2.x] "Then We Doubled It"



Comparison with Zivko high dps mana based build below.

This build works the same way as other blood magic BoR WoE builds already on forums, but the passive tree is optimized to give twice the dps while only losing 8.8% hp, 4% block, some life regen, and life recovery from flask nodes at level 91.

If a small edge in survivability (detailed below) is more important than doubling your DPS, then one of Zivko's BoR+WoE builds may be better for you.

This build takes advantage of more 2H nodes and attack speed for more dps and faster leap slam (0.47 sec with just faster attacks). No points are wasted on inferior paths, node clusters, or +10 dex nodes.

Atziri is easily farmable with this build as are all maps, quickly.

The only bad mods are phys reflect (doable but very slow) or poison + vulnerability since I have no chaos resist currently.

TREE
Spoiler

Level 91
http://tinyurl.com/n3kmjjx

Level 94 without sentinel node
http://tinyurl.com/krfhrxx

Level 100
http://tinyurl.com/pmjz7fw





STATS (39.5k splash, 55k singletarget, 69% block 52% spellblock, 5k life)
Spoiler

These are slightly outdated, new stats are 5729 life, 42k splash with minor gear improvements.


defence
Spoiler

splash
Spoiler

gem swap
Spoiler



GEAR + LINKS
Spoiler


Added fire gets swapped for melee splash (singletarget/splash dps)

Total cost for above gear just under 10 exalt. The rares aren't anything special; I found them myself. Could gain a lot more HP and DPS with better rares.

If you want additional block/spellblock, you can vaal orb 4% block onto the amulet and wear rainbowstrides, but you'll need to take two 30 int nodes to do so.

Vaal cyclone may be replaced by CODT + Enduring Cry + Immortal Call + Enfeeble + increased duration for level 77/78 maps if you wish


BANDITS
Spoiler
Kraityn/Kraityn/Kill all

Resists > 40 life since many slots have no resists, although you can respec to life later (not recommended) if you have nice rares ready to go.

IAS > phys dmg for dps and movement speed.

You could alternatively unspec sentinel once you have high resistance tri-res rares (recommended)


LEVELING TIPS
Spoiler
Use a 2 hander with molten strike or a skill of your choice. Take acceleration and the two 6% ias nodes then head left to get hp + 2h nodes from bottom of marauder area, then head up to life wheel and up to resolute technique. Once you get wings (level 60) head right to get the dual wield nodes and hatchet master.

LEVEL 30ish
http://tinyurl.com/p8hfawv

LEVEL 45ish
http://tinyurl.com/p4xw7cq

LEVEL 60ish
http://tinyurl.com/o3vepct

Level 76
http://tinyurl.com/q4ku42k




COMPARISON TO ZIVKO HIGH DPS MANA BASED BUILD (level 91)
Spoiler

Zivko passive tree here http://tinylink.in/2BKWV

Phys Dmg % (67.8% increased, 48.2% MORE)
optimized 413%
mana based 246%

Attack Speed % (94.2% higher, 32.2% MORE)
optimized 101%
mana based 52%

DPS (96.04% MORE)


WoE = [246 damage * 1.2 attacks per second (295 dps) x2]

(246 * 5.13) * (1.2 * 2.01) (3043.9) x2 -> 6087.8
(246 * 3.46) * (1.2 * 1.52) (1552.5) x2 -> 3105.03
6087.8 / 3105.3 = 1.9604

Given that gems will add more phys % the difference is actually slightly smaller but still huge.

Life (12.4% reduced, 8.8% LESS***)
optimized 182% -> 282% (100% is base life)
mana based 217% -> 317% (100% is base life)

1800 base life example ( level 91 * 12 hp/level = 1092 ) + 708 life from STR/HP on gear
i.e. 1800 base life becomes 5076 optimized -> 90 strength -> 45 life -> 5202.9
i.e. 1800 base life becomes 5706 mana based

*** It should be noted my build has an additional 90 strength (45 hp, 18% phys dmg) and sacrifices dexterity (resolute technique makes dexterity almost useless)

Block (69% block vs 73% with gear listed) (4% less block)
optimized 29%
mana based 33%

Zivko has 10% aura effect node, 80% life from flasks vs 15%, as well as 288% life regen vs 150%. However, more DPS makes life leech regenerate more as well.

Mana based build has a slight edge in survivability (8.8% more life, 4% more block, significantly more life from flasks) but has substantially less DPS, which will also affect life leech.


If you like this build please bump the post so others wont struggle with unoptimized passive trees.
Last edited by tidus1492 on Sep 9, 2014, 1:54:06 AM
This is not an optimized version of WoE + BoR build. What it gained in dps, it lost in survivability.

Build this thread is trying to optimize can be found here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/934466/

This would be the stats if both builds had the same gear.

This build:
39k dps DS+splash
5.4k life
69% block
69% spell block
500 hp/sec life leech
problems with reflect

Here's the WoE+BoR tidus1492 tried to 'optimize'
32k dps DS+splash
6k life
73% block
73% spell block
30% chance to avoid being stunned
1200 hp/sec life leech
reflect a non issue
1800hp restored from instant life flasks


Better stats are highlighted.
Poebuilder.com was used to compare defensive stats of the builds using SAME gear (rainbowstrides included, which at the time i'm writing this post are not being used in this build). You can create gear and import both skill trees to poebuilder and see the stats like life, block, stun avoidance and so on for yourself. I'm specificaly writing this because i've been accused o skewing stats. Don't take my word for it, check them for yourself.
I'd also like to point out while accusing me of skewing the stats, he's making obviously false claims about build difference, for exmaple claiming dps output is doubled (check the thread title). He showed a few times already he's math is off, but claiming 39k is 2x more then 32k is absurd.

Even though tidus1492 is trying to discredit the build he's copying to make this build look better, the fact is that reason why BoR+WoE build is so good is its high survivability, which is toned down more then he's willing to admit. In fact he's calling it marginal loss in defense stats, which is not true if you take a look at stats based on same gear.
Offensive stats are improved compared to original build, build does gain approximately 7k dps, but if same auras are used in both builds, dps increase is a bit less then 5k.

I do not consider gain in dps while crippling build's defenses and drop in sustainability to be optimization which i stated multiple time in this thread and that is the reason why i have taken an issue with this.

I would not respond to this thread if it weren't for the word 'optimized' in its title. If the damage went up, but defensive stats were the same or slightly worse, as OP claims, this would indeed be optimization.
This build, however, simply drops important defensive stats to gain additional dps. Truth of the matter is that this is just a different build and increase in dps has a downside of decrease in its survivability which outweighs the benefit, in my opinion. And i have a lot of experience playing this build.

Hopefully, OP will post some videos in the future so we can see the build in action. I wouldn't mind watching an Apex run.
Last edited by ogrec on Sep 3, 2014, 7:11:22 PM
Unfortunately Zivko has taken offence to someone greatly optimizing the passive tree for one of his BoR + WoE builds and the next 2 pages are essentially him comparing his build with superior default league gear and no blood magic gem vs my current rampage gear using blood magic gem, along with skewing some numbers.

I advise the reader to compare the skill trees and not compare gear as that will depend on what you can find/trade for in game.

I recommend the website poebuilder.com as you can load up both passive trees and compare them easily as I have done above.
Last edited by tidus1492 on Sep 3, 2014, 5:42:26 PM
First, dps tooltip with melee splash displays single target damage, splash is a lot lower. So you do not have 55k single target dps and 39 splash damage, you have ~39k single target damage and ~32k splash.

Compared to mana variant of my build, you're not doubling dps, you're gaining gaining 6-7k dps* but losing 800 life*, 4% max lightning resistance, 3% block and 21% spellblock, 65% increased life recovered from flasks which is even worse considering you have only 2% life leech. This also means phys reflect is probably an issue, maybe even elemental reflect since large potion of the damage is elemental.

*if the gear was the same

I have no problem with this build being posted, i have problem with calling it optimized because it has so many downsides that its hard to argue that its even equally good, let alone better.
reserved
Last edited by tidus1492 on Sep 3, 2014, 6:17:21 PM
if you want a comparison with same gear (so if both builds have rainbowstrides), heres the stats:
1000 more life, 4% more block and spell block, 4% more lightning resistance, 30% chance to avoid being stunned, reflect a non issue compared to cant play reflect maps, 1200hp/sec leech regen compared to 500hp/sec
also instant flasks recover ~1100 compared to ~1800.

you don't need to list tree break down and percentages, i already listed you the stats so look at them. you can't call that 'a slight edge in survivability' and call it optimized when dps increase on ds+splash is less then 25%.
Last edited by ogrec on Sep 3, 2014, 1:33:30 PM
I have updated the comparison above taking into account the additional strength which gives your build a 9.7% life advantage, or the difference between 5209 hp and 5706 hp

If you can point out a problem with my math please do so and I will correct it. Otherwise I think the numbers speak for me.
sure, let the numbers speak for them self.
you lost a big chunk of survivability and ability to deal with reflect for less then 25% increase in dps.
gz
Last edited by ogrec on Sep 3, 2014, 1:44:12 PM
I have not seen Zivko's build but i can vouch that Tidus's build is very effective.

We are clearing 77+ maps extremely fast with no trouble at all.

Ign: Kiaraa, Kionn , Nalaa
Kiaraa Cyclone (2.0): https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1330927
Kionn Wander (1.2): http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1037723 (OUTDATED)

Shop: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1315055
How is this actually optimized? It looks pretty unoptimized to me, maybe you picked up the earlier drafts of the WoE build?
Ign: Leary_AscendedNecro
Twitchtv: leary93
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfzgUpVcv6wzrs5TwKZaGJQ

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