Choosing a CoC build

Hey guys I really need your help.
I have a level 75 Blender duelist which completley rocks, I think i can even atziri but i don't have the money to buy a midnight :P

So the problem is this - Im getting kinda board and I have always wanted to have a CoC character (tried dozens of time and never worked for me).
The thing is that I know only two kinds of CoC builds - Ones that cost tons of currency, and others that are cheap and tanky but have a low damage output (less or equal to a blender).

Any tips\suggested builds? Thanks in advance!

Btw I already have a maligaro's, two rat's nests, tabula and many other useful uniques if we are talking budget wise.

tl;dr version: Is there a CoC build with a MEDIUM budget and MEDIUM damage output?

Passive Skill Tree

If I recall correctly, I had:

~2,100 life

~800 free mana with acceptable mana regeneration for low level maps

75% block chance

53% spell block chance

~46% crit chance, ~56% with five power charges

I ran using Cyclone + CoC + LGOH + Arc + Firestorm + Flame Surge. I always use Arc first and foremost due to the chance to shock. I then used Firestorm as both a method of damage and to augment another spell's damage, Flame Surge.

If I used Spectral Throw, I'd switch Firestorm and Flame Surge for Arctic Breath and Fireball, but I don't use these as I sometimes use Frost Wall and due to terrain being problematic in some instances.

For leech I use a CWDT level 1 + CWS + Warlord's Mark. It doesn't give the best leech, but it almost always applies the second I engage in combat.

I avoid stun immunity and avoidance because CWS is a wonderful little gem that takes advantage of max block quite well.

The only things I've had trouble with are hard hitting bosses and burst damage from very large mobs that attack you simultaneously, like spellcasters. My resistances are absolute shit, the highest being fire with about 15% resistance.

If you want to stick with melee, try a molten striker + GMP + FP + AB + FB

Shotguns!

Also works with LS, but less effective vs bosses.

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bullsonparade wrote:

If you want to stick with melee, try a molten striker + GMP + FP + AB + FB

Shotguns!

Also works with LS, but less effective vs bosses.

Molten Strike and Lightning Strike are not CoC-viable.

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Natharias wrote:

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bullsonparade wrote:

If you want to stick with melee, try a molten striker + GMP + FP + AB + FB

Shotguns!

Also works with LS, but less effective vs bosses.

Molten Strike and Lightning Strike are not CoC-viable.

They absolutely are. Why do you think they aren't? The fireballs from molten strike all hit indepently from one another and don't hit at the same time. What happens with Molten is you can proc CoC with the initial hit and then all the fireballs too. Since the fireballs don't all hit at the same time you won't trigger the cooldown from CoC. You can potentially hit one target up to 6 times in one attack, but most of the time it's 2-3.

LS is less effective but still viable.

I'm not saying it's as OP as barrage but it's by no means unviable. MS is, by far, more effective vs bosses than spectral throw, assuming same gear levels.

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bullsonparade wrote:

They absolutely are. Why do you think they aren't?

I'd like to hear why you think they are.

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bullsonparade wrote:

The fireballs from molten strike all hit indepently from one another and don't hit at the same time.

True to some extent, but let's ignore the cooldown since it's so low.

Molten Strike, without the Concentrated Effect gem, covers a very wide area and is useless against single targets. I've tried it and I got a much better return from Cyclone. Cyclone also doesn't require Multistrike like the following skills would: Molten Strike, Lightning Strike, Double Strike, Dual Strike, and Elemental Hit.

Those skills require Multistrike to get a fast enough APS score to compare to Cyclone. Spectral Throw is viable because they come back, essentially producing two projectiles at the cost of one. No other skills do the things Cyclone or Spectral Throw do.

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bullsonparade wrote:

What happens with Molten is you can proc CoC with the initial hit and then all the fireballs too. Since the fireballs don't all hit at the same time you won't trigger the cooldown from CoC. You can potentially hit one target up to 6 times in one attack, but most of the time it's 2-3.

Exactly why it isn't viable. Cyclone will hit a target at least four times, depending on movement and attack speeds, and it hits all targets within the radius. It doesn't excel better against single targets or mobs, since it always does the same amount.

Additionally, Molten Strike does not have a built in immunity to stun, while Cyclone does. This means using Cyclone allows your build to avoid Unwavering Stance and Eye of Chayula. That means a huge boost to survivability, especially if you go ES.

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bullsonparade wrote:

I'm not saying it's as OP as barrage but it's by no means unviable. MS is, by far, more effective vs bosses than spectral throw, assuming same gear levels.

No, Molten Strike is not. I'm beginning to think you haven't tried Cyclone with a CoC build.

I suggest you try it.

Here's why it works:

GMP + molten strike works because of the shotgun mechanics. You don't need Multistrike. In fact it's not recommended, because it doesn't scale with the projectile spells. With one attack, you will hit a target 1 time in the initial strike plus 2-3 times with fireballs. That's 3-4 near immediate hits multiplied by attack speed. With even low attack speed, say 2, you're looking at 6-8 potential hits per second.

GMP is what makes it work.

It adds % chance to proc more due to more MS projectiles plus adds more spell damage to projectile spells buy shotgunning. If I hit a target 3 times with molten strike with 3 spells, all with 5 projectiles, I'm looking at 45 projectiles hitting in a very short span.

15 projectiles per CoC trigger x 3 (average) hits = 45 projectiles in under a second. All of which can shotgun.

One attack is all that's needed to clear packs of 75+ maps.

You can also easily run a 20/20 molten strike on mana alone. I think my 6l only cost 27 mana. Cyclone requires either specialize build (EB) or blood magic, which means one less spell. I've tried every attack, including Cyclone. Molten strike measures up well to all of them.

I'm not saying one is appreciably better than the the other, but Molten Strike is absolutely a viable CoC skill. I can post videos later or show you in game if you need more convincing.

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bullsonparade wrote:

Here's why it works:

GMP + molten strike works because of the shotgun mechanics. You don't need Multistrike. In fact it's not recommended, because it doesn't scale with the projectile spells. With one attack, you will hit a target 1 time in the initial strike plus 2-3 times with fireballs. That's 3-4 near immediate hits multiplied by attack speed. With even low attack speed, say 2, you're looking at 6-8 potential hits per second.

GMP is what makes it work.

It adds % chance to proc more due to more MS projectiles plus adds more spell damage to projectile spells buy shotgunning. If I hit a target 3 times with molten strike with 3 spells, all with 5 projectiles, I'm looking at 45 projectiles hitting in a very short span.

15 projectiles per CoC trigger x 3 (average) hits = 45 projectiles in under a second. All of which can shotgun.

One attack is all that's needed to clear packs of 75+ maps.

You can also easily run a 20/20 molten strike on mana alone. I think my 6l only cost 27 mana. Cyclone requires either specialize build (EB) or blood magic, which means one less spell. I've tried every attack, including Cyclone. Molten strike measures up well to all of them.

I'm not saying one is appreciably better than the the other, but Molten Strike is absolutely a viable CoC skill. I can post videos later or show you in game if you need more convincing.

Did you really just try to disqualify Cyclone based on mana cost? LOL.

How about trying:

Warlord's Mark. Very good at getting life and mana leech. That's two support gems right there, especially when using Vaal Pact. I'd take up 10% mixed life/mana leech from a proc setup than another 5% crit chance and some extra damage that I don't need. Other curses don't even compare to Assassin's Mark now for CoC builds.

Thief's Torment. Almost a must have for many CoC builds. The amount of LGOH and the previous only source of MGOH is priceless. It also reduces curse effect by half, so you don't require an anti-curse flask now. It offers enough to make up for both ring slots. Say hello to Lightning Coil and more flask slots.

Let me make sure you know what I mean by "viable".

Let's first look at Molten Strike with GMP. GMP basically forces you to use projectile based spells, and that means fireball/arctic breath only. You could also use Arc for extra damage, ICS for increased crit chance, or ICD for increased crit damage. Reflect can be a bitch at any point.

Now look at Cyclone. You can't effectively use fireball or arctic breath, but you can take advantage of just about any spell. The combo I use is just as lethal against packs as it is against single targets. Arc increases damage, firestorm ignites the target, and flame surge deals 40% increased damage from the enemy being shocked and then 50% more damage from the target being ignited. Oh and don't forget about a 300% multiplier. That's one setup.

Want more survivability? Plug in Summon Raging Spirit and run Arctic Armor. AA totally negates firestorm and just about destroys flame surge, which you might block anyways. Meanwhile MS has five fireballs you must either block or take damage from. Even with AA, it can add up from doing 45 within a few seconds.

So not only is reflect not a problem entirely, it benefits the use of setups not using GMP.

I already mentioned stun and how Cyclone is better in that regard. But this is a huge thing when you're doing late maps and Atziri. Every bit counts. I know I'd rather have that small amount of evasion than not have it.

So when I say "viable", I mean it being viable against end game content.

I could never get cyclone, Whirling Blades, nor flicker strike working because of Desync, how do you deal with this with Cyclone. I still use Spectral Throw.

To be clear, I'm not attempting to disqualify anything. I'm just making a case for Molten strike.

I don't disagree with much of what you said regarding the pros of cyclone, but none of that diminishes Molten strike's end game viability. Thief's Torment can also be used by Molten but it isn't required. Curses should never be used as a primary form of sustain (mana or life). I shouldn't have to tell you why.

I was using the GMP + Molten strike as one example of a CoC build. You can also go the Multi-strike route and vary your spells (eg. arc, cascade, etc). Instead of scaling for projectiles, you scale for attack speed and spell damage. But the benefits of Molten remain the same: Maximizing you're chance to proc CoC with the fireball projectiles that molten provides. Btw, I used the Arc+GS+firestrom with a multistrike molten CoC build and it was also very good.

Assume you have a 5 aps molten strike with MS. Your chances to hit are automatically doubled due the projectiles. It effectively makes it a 10 aps attack, at minimum. Also, since your mana costs are so low, you level your molten strike to its fullest potential. Even with a crappy 150 dps dagger, you can still do 5k dps from the attack skill alone. That does not include the molten strike projectile damage. It's basically free dps.



End game viability has as much do with your mitigation as it does your damage. Molten CoC, regardless of specialty, does more than enough dps for endgame content.

I'm not making a case based off theorycraft. I have a Molten striker and it works.