Skill Tree Reset; And Bandit Reward Quests ?

"

Odoakar wrote:

I hate it when they change big parts of the game without really covering all the side-effects of these changes.

Everything in the game is far too interconnected for them to cover ALL of the effects. I'd be happy if they at least cover the most significant and direct ones. Bandit rewards certainly seem to fall into that category though, especially this time.

"

kasub wrote:

They did introduce the recipe for anyone who really does want to change their build. It's no different than using regrets to change passives.

Other then the fact that resetting normal passives are literally 20x less expensive.. ?

Play the new leagues maybe?

Actually I agree that they should let you respec bandit rewards free but it seems like the effects on standard are always an after thought for GGG.

They balance most things around the temp leagues, therefore standard gets the shaft

"

Hello_brosky wrote:

"

kasub wrote:

They did introduce the recipe for anyone who really does want to change their build. It's no different than using regrets to change passives.

Other then the fact that resetting normal passives are literally 20x less expensive.. ?

A single one yes... but if you change your complete build?

"

Hodari wrote:

"

Odoakar wrote:

I hate it when they change big parts of the game without really covering all the side-effects of these changes.

Everything in the game is far too interconnected for them to cover ALL of the effects. I'd be happy if they at least cover the most significant and direct ones. Bandit rewards certainly seem to fall into that category though, especially this time.

I agree a bit but than again your build most likely won't be broken just because you lack a Skillpoint from a Banditquest etc.

It is basically a choice you have to make, do you respec inside the frame of your bandit choices, which is what GGG intends the respec for (basically if you are a life-based ranger they want you to stay a life-based ranger even though you could change things up a bit due to the respec (going from Bow to Melee as one example). However the respec isn't meant to turn a life-based char into a CI one. If you want to do that you have to take the penalty of not having the best bandit-rewards, but you still get a free respec, which is better than leveling the complete char again.

Due to the efficiency-decrease from the Oak-reward (it still isn't a terrible reward, since it is fairly unlikely that you get the same efficiency from one Skillpoint, since you have to find a Life-Node in the first place, getting a 8% node also was better than getting Oak in a lot of cases, but you normally took all the avaible Clusters anyway and traveling to a new one isn't possible with just 1 Point.

"

Emphasy wrote:

"

Hello_brosky wrote:

"

kasub wrote:

They did introduce the recipe for anyone who really does want to change their build. It's no different than using regrets to change passives.

Other then the fact that resetting normal passives are literally 20x less expensive.. ?

A single one yes... but if you change your complete build?

"

Hodari wrote:

"

Odoakar wrote:

I hate it when they change big parts of the game without really covering all the side-effects of these changes.

Everything in the game is far too interconnected for them to cover ALL of the effects. I'd be happy if they at least cover the most significant and direct ones. Bandit rewards certainly seem to fall into that category though, especially this time.

I agree a bit but than again your build most likely won't be broken just because you lack a Skillpoint from a Banditquest etc.

It is basically a choice you have to make, do you respec inside the frame of your bandit choices, which is what GGG intends the respec for (basically if you are a life-based ranger they want you to stay a life-based ranger even though you could change things up a bit due to the respec (going from Bow to Melee as one example). However the respec isn't meant to turn a life-based char into a CI one. If you want to do that you have to take the penalty of not having the best bandit-rewards, but you still get a free respec, which is better than leveling the complete char again.

Due to the efficiency-decrease from the Oak-reward (it still isn't a terrible reward, since it is fairly unlikely that you get the same efficiency from one Skillpoint, since you have to find a Life-Node in the first place, getting a 8% node also was better than getting Oak in a lot of cases, but you normally took all the avaible Clusters anyway and traveling to a new one isn't possible with just 1 Point.

Even so, it is NOT worth 20 regrets to change just a single skill that is easily obtainable within the skill tree. Also, if it was GGG's intention for players to try to keep their current build, but adapt to the new tree, then they wouldn't have made the vendor recipe in the first place. But they did. And they should implement it into the passive full reset, as the skill tree has changed consideribly.

seriously?

normal, its oak, unless you are going ci later. in that case you took the point.

cruel, you took the point, since there is always a better node available than the choice.

merciless, you either needed a charge you couldnt get to (or wanted 7 max) and took it or you took the point since you didnt need or want a charge.

If you are recreating the same basic build then these choices wont change in any meaningful way and you dont need a bandit reset.

If you want a whole new build wanting a different charge or switching to ci from life then thats beyond the scope of a mere respec due to changes in the tree.

Cope. Like an adult would.

B.

"

bredin wrote:

seriously?

normal, its oak, unless you are going ci later. in that case you took the point.

cruel, you took the point, since there is always a better node available than the choice.

merciless, you either needed a charge you couldnt get to (or wanted 7 max) and took it or you took the point since you didnt need or want a charge.

If you are recreating the same basic build then these choices wont change in any meaningful way and you dont need a bandit reset.

If you want a whole new build wanting a different charge or switching to ci from life then thats beyond the scope of a mere respec due to changes in the tree.

Cope. Like an adult would.

B.

I don't think you understand the point-the tree has been DRASTICALLY changed to the point where your previous build is useless. It is impossible to implement your build into the new skill tree, and you MUST COMPLETELY change it. Of course switching from CI to life or vice versa is beyond a simple tree respec, but allowing to reset bandit rewards is for good reason. It's not possible to "cope" because the effectiveness of your build has been significantly weakened.

And as I said earlier, if GGG wants the players to permanently stick with their build, they wouldn't have made the vendor recipe at all. They just need to add this with the full tree respec

"

Alea wrote:

"

bredin wrote:

seriously?

normal, its oak, unless you are going ci later. in that case you took the point.

cruel, you took the point, since there is always a better node available than the choice.

merciless, you either needed a charge you couldnt get to (or wanted 7 max) and took it or you took the point since you didnt need or want a charge.

If you are recreating the same basic build then these choices wont change in any meaningful way and you dont need a bandit reset.

If you want a whole new build wanting a different charge or switching to ci from life then thats beyond the scope of a mere respec due to changes in the tree.

Cope. Like an adult would.

B.

Why are you that low hating and so wrong dude ?

We need answer from ggg about this, and if it's planned in future if not implemented;
I have alot of characters ready for respect and interesting build testing, now some of them are CI, some others OAK, some others 4% Speed, and a bunch are or not power or endurance charge...

"

If you want a whole new build wanting a different charge or switching to ci from life then thats beyond the scope of a mere respec due to changes in the tree.

this is a non sense, and look like you are trying to teach me the "scope" of a full skill tree changes & gems new balance.
grow up grow up...

You're right. I am trying to teach you the scope (intention) of the respec.

I think I'm failing.

I tried to point out that only a complete change in a characters fundamental implementation would require a change in bandit rewards. This is the reason why GGG is against respecs in principia and included regret orbs (and the expensive bandit respec) only grudgingly on the basis that small errors in character design should not be punished unduly by making a player start from scratch to fix these.

Full respecs in light of tree changes are not meant to be carte blanche invitations to turn your ground slam stunlock guy into a dual totomancer just because youve found a build enabling unique and want to try it out.

And GGG have made this point clear in the past. It was probably in CB, iirc. The process of communication is simple: no update, no change in philosophy.

Thus we can conclude that there will be no bandit respec until GGG announce one. They do not need to to say 'no change for this' every time they dont change something.

Capeche?

B.

"

Hello_brosky wrote:

I don't think you understand the point-the tree has been DRASTICALLY changed to the point where your previous build is useless. It is impossible to implement your build into the new skill tree, and you MUST COMPLETELY change it. Of course switching from CI to life or vice versa is beyond a simple tree respec, but allowing to reset bandit rewards is for good reason. It's not possible to "cope" because the effectiveness of your build has been significantly weakened.

And as I said earlier, if GGG wants the players to permanently stick with their build, they wouldn't have made the vendor recipe at all. They just need to add this with the full tree respec

[emphasis mine]

I call Bollocks on that one.

Please show me how exactly a character will require a fundamental shift in its point allocations to be workable after the tree change?

see post above why the bandit recipies were added.

B.

"small errors in character design should not be punished unduly by making a player start from scratch to fix these."
So a bandit reward can't be an error? If it is an error, why make it 20x more expensive? I remember my very first character getting the +40 mana just because I thought my mana was too low at my early level 20's just to come to regret it later when I gained experience and found out it can give you a skillpoint.. and from what I know, there was no recipe back then, correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the passive tree, My previous character was a freezing pulse perm curse temporal chains build, basically a perma chill/freez with frostbite and elemental weakness. Good for soloing, not much in parties. As I have invested most my nodes on curses, life, and defence in general, I do very little damage. From the upcoming patch notes I read that curses will now no longer be permanent and you have to use passives to just increase the duration. They have also nerfed the not only the duration, but also the effectiveness of it from what I've read, and you now have to get passives in the tree just to make them stronger. With all this, I surely won't have enough skill points left to put on what I want and the survivability will be overall bad, As my build relied heavily on curses.

What I plan to make next is a crit caster utilizing power charges.

Apologies for taking long to respond. I am on my mobile phone.