Cast when Damage taken: Treshold Question.

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Natharias wrote:

Well let's look at what happens if a max block build gets perma-stunned and is using the CWS combo I'm suggesting.

They'll have at least five, maybe six spells set up. Each spell will have a 51% chance of proccing, so let's assume that it's a literal 50%. Every stun will cause three spells to fire.

If every enemy attack stuns, that means each enemy attack procs three spells.

If you use Cybil's Paw, that drastically increases the damage all spells do and causes them to provide some life on hit. This means that each enemy attack is providing many times the listed life gain plus whatever life leech may apply.

The build can now afk an entire room of enemies and do much more than an Aurora build, since it would actually be doing damage by standing there.

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Natharias wrote:

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Malone wrote:

There is a big difference between them :

100 % chance to cast when damage taken
50 % chance to cast when stunned

You forget the other big difference.

CWS doesn't reduce the damage any linked skills do even at level one, while CWDT does.

If you want to put skills for damage, CWS is a much better option.

If you just want defenses to proc, CWDT is a much better option, even if you can't get any stun avoidance.

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Toshis8 wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Exactly why max block wants to avoid stun immunity or avoidance. There is little to no reason to avoid stun since you won't take damage most of the time anyways.

So, since you avoid damage already, you might as well make the most of the fact you would've been stunned.

If the blocker is immune to stun, they cannot use proc combos. That's a huge downside.

I disagree. Even if you block and dont take damage you still get stunned and have to recover from it - you are unable to do anything while recovering. If you get perma-stunned - you're dead meat. I am not very happy in talking about my build, but probably i have to, so here it is:

I have very high block chance (and spell block chance);
Have a lot af armor;
Use "Aegis Aurora"
Have almost no evasion (focus on armor and energy shield)

So i took "unwavering stance" (cannot evade attacks, cannot be stunned). Anyway i have almost no evasion, let them always hit me i will still be blocking most of their attacks AND i will never be stuned, interrupted or stun-locked. I wont have to take "increased stun recovery" mods on gear and will be able to take something else instead.

Ofcourse there are some builds that wont work well with "unwavering stance", but my build works pretty well with it. Probably the only downside is that i cant use "cast when stunned".

Well let's look at what happens if a max block build gets perma-stunned and is using the CWS combo I'm suggesting.

They'll have at least five, maybe six spells set up. Each spell will have a 51% chance of proccing, so let's assume that it's a literal 50%. Every stun will cause three spells to fire.

If every enemy attack stuns, that means each enemy attack procs three spells.

If you use Cybil's Paw, that drastically increases the damage all spells do and causes them to provide some life on hit. This means that each enemy attack is providing many times the listed life gain plus whatever life leech may apply.

The build can now afk an entire room of enemies and do much more than an Aurora build, since it would actually be doing damage by standing there.

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Well let's look at what happens if a max block build gets perma-stunned and is using the CWS combo I'm suggesting.

They'll have at least five, maybe six spells set up. Each spell will have a 51% chance of proccing, so let's assume that it's a literal 50%. Every stun will cause three spells to fire.

If every enemy attack stuns, that means each enemy attack procs three spells.

If you use Cybil's Paw, that drastically increases the damage all spells do and causes them to provide some life on hit. This means that each enemy attack is providing many times the listed life gain plus whatever life leech may apply.

The build can now afk an entire room of enemies and do much more than an Aurora build, since it would actually be doing damage by standing there.

What build is this with six damage spells on CwS, CI porcupine? The trouble with CwS is you must take big enough hits to reliably get stunned as good armor builds with a decent amount of life will just shrug off 95% of hits. For some builds CwS will perform comparably, but in general case CwDT will be much more reliable even on max blocker.

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Toshis8 wrote:

Every 1 out of 2 enemy stuns can force you to cast spell. Generally you will probably be recieving huge damage hits and Cybil's Paw restores only 5-8 life when enemy is hit with spell. Also when perma-stunned you can't do anything, can't retreat. It can work, but seems too risky. Combine shield with "tempest shield" and you also can do damage to enemies. Also there is a LOT of space for creativity when playing arround "tempest shield".

EDIT: my friend plays with CI & life leech "shadow". When playing together i sometimes see him dying to stun lock. He said to me, that being stunned frequently is annoying.

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Natharias wrote:

Yes, but you almost never take those big hits.

If you're really worried you can make a life based Acrobatics version to help avoid more hits. You can also base it on evasion to help avoid crits as well.

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Toshis8 wrote:

EDIT: my friend plays with CI & life leech "shadow". When playing together i sometimes see him dying to stun lock. He said to me, that being stunned frequently is annoying.

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Yes, but you almost never take those big hits.

If you're really worried you can make a life based Acrobatics version to help avoid more hits. You can also base it on evasion to help avoid crits as well.

Exactly, CoS is a failed gem because it relies on something you're trying as hard as you can to avoid.

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Natharias wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Yes, but you almost never take those big hits.

If you're really worried you can make a life based Acrobatics version to help avoid more hits. You can also base it on evasion to help avoid crits as well.

Exactly, CoS is a failed gem because it relies on something you're trying as hard as you can to avoid.

Why are you so against it?

You have 75% chance to block, 40% dodge, 30% spell dodge, and a ton of evasion...

...the large hits will almost NEVER actually damage you. Instead they'll be blocked (and proc the gem since it would stun you), be evaded, or dodged.

Why not use the CWS gem if you don't want stun immunity?

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Well let's look at what happens if a max block build gets perma-stunned and is using the CWS combo I'm suggesting.

They'll have at least five, maybe six spells set up. Each spell will have a 51% chance of proccing, so let's assume that it's a literal 50%. Every stun will cause three spells to fire.

If every enemy attack stuns, that means each enemy attack procs three spells.

If you use Cybil's Paw, that drastically increases the damage all spells do and causes them to provide some life on hit. This means that each enemy attack is providing many times the listed life gain plus whatever life leech may apply.

The build can now afk an entire room of enemies and do much more than an Aurora build, since it would actually be doing damage by standing there.

What build is this with six damage spells on CwS, CI porcupine? The trouble with CwS is you must take big enough hits to reliably get stunned as good armor builds with a decent amount of life will just shrug off 95% of hits. For some builds CwS will perform comparably, but in general case CwDT will be much more reliable even on max blocker.

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kompaniet wrote:

You haven't seen the afk discharger in action? http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/575998

Cws ftw =)

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raics wrote:

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kompaniet wrote:

You haven't seen the afk discharger in action? http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/575998

Cws ftw =)

'CI porcupine' I mentioned was the showcase build for 'trigger gems are broken', it was probably the first one that exploited CwS and was very similar to that discharger, only with ethereal knives.

And that's exactly the thing it proves, that trigger gems are very prone to exploit, not that CwS is a well designed support.