why duelist is so unpopular?

i just saw the inforgraphic on the 2 week race.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/937310/page/1

why you think duelist (and after that shadow) is so unpopular?





relative amounts of duelists:
while 12% overall characters were duelist, which is way below average but still ok; only 5.9% managed it over 60, and finally only 3.9 of 80+ characters were duelists.


i remember duelists tree got a very noticable buff (with unique weapon range etc). and meleephys buffs also affected duelists to a good amount.

however, numbers dont lie.

is it just an overall weakness of dexterity characters (see shadow and ranger numbers) compared to templar and mara corner of the tree? And melee type builds suffer most from the dexterity weakness?



some other ideas, maybe exaggerated!
# expensive "stat"-routes down the duelist area
# stat-node-expensive to get out of the area and reach keystones
# "duelists" asociate keystones are not hard or even easier to get as mara or scion etc
# mediocre amount of life! cant compete with mara and templar here, important point i think
# very "physical melee" focused, maybe the only reason to start there at all
# overloaded with weapon clusters
# ever seen a mind over matter duelist? Never tested it, but it sounds like a no go without soultaker as a melee
# to a lesser amount style, the 12% overall indicates that its not SO bad




e: maybe wrong subforum; i always post here, so...; But maybe it will develop to some good feedback about red-shirt-guy

No idea, but I'm glad you posted this since I would have never seen the infographic otherwise :P

I am legitimately surprised about duelists though, they have access to some of the games best tree nodes.

For me a couple of reasons come to mind.

- Marauder has the better gem choices (tons of reduced mana, whereas duelist gets none). In a new league, especially a two week race this may be a concern.

- I don't think the duelist starting area is that good if you don't go for a melee build (at least not in a HC league). If you want some early game life nodes you are forced into taking melee damage nodes.

I'd think duelists are ok in endgame, they are within reach of (as the graphic shows) both IR and RT, which were the #1 and #2 keystones.

They also have dervish and leather/cloth + cloth/chain, both of which have keystone-like effects as a regular notable.

Unfortunately the stats show otherwise and as surprising at it seems you can't argue with the facts.

"

incinerate wrote:

- Marauder has the better gem choices (tons of reduced mana, whereas duelist gets none). In a new league, especially a two week race this may be a concern.

Definitely a huge factor in new leagues. GGG should abandon this idea of forced trading and give essential gems to all classes.

Hi

I don't think people get how good the duelist is, best character for blending speed,damage and life. If anything its probably the red shirt, so many fashion savy exiles lol.

DUELISTS FOREVAH!



Agreed Morbo, reduced mana is a essential gem for all classes

cheers

I think it's not so much that duelist is weak overall as it was just the specific format of this particular race. The combination of Invasion bosses AND lockboxes in a hardcore league made melee characters very dangerous to run, so not surprising that duelist would have a hard time there. And yes, the lack of reduced mana also hurts with time being somewhat limited. If you were going to go melee in this race, Marauder has both better access to RM AND probably a much higher life pool, making it a better choice. Duelists can also be decent for bow builds, but then you'd be better off just going for a ranger. And of course duelist is completely on the opposite side of the tree from any spell nodes.

Duelist can be very strong, but it takes a little longer to reach full potential, at least in this particular format.

Everyone is reading too much into these infographic stats. It was a 2 week race. Item centric characters tend to do poorly. It is in these races where spells can shine. You get automatic upgrades at every gem level. They're easy to boost.

What would be more interesting is a 4 month infographic. These are where any tangible data about class performance long term is found. The 2 week one is more about how do classes stand up in an item weak arena. Those that rely on weapons and gear are worse off.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Everyone is reading too much into these infographic stats. It was a 2 week race. Item centric characters tend to do poorly. It is in these races where spells can shine. You get automatic upgrades at every gem level. They're easy to boost.

What would be more interesting is a 4 month infographic. These are where any tangible data about class performance long term is found. The 2 week one is more about how do classes stand up in an item weak arena. Those that rely on weapons and gear are worse off.

Agree, but this does illustrate the problem with melee also.

Actually, in the 4 month HC league (invasion) currently the board looks exactly the same as this race: 4 shadows in the top 100, 3 duelists, 1 of each dead. There are 15 rangers, which shows rangers are what is expected from the infographic in races also: fairly balanced in endgame, but difficult to level to 60 for some reason.

In other words, the infographic shows roughly exactly what we see in invasion, when you account for leveling issues rangers seem to face.

He has a huge head and he looks goofy. That is why I don't use him.