Atziri Minion Add phase -- DPS check reasonable?

Do you guys think the Atziri fight should have a DPS-check phase?

If you don't know what I'm referring to, during the Atziri boss encounter there's a phase where a stream of minions will walk towards Atziri, and if they reach her, she gets healed. The minions themselves don't actually make Atziri herself more difficult per se... But what this means is if you don't have enough damage to kill her minions before they reach her (time-sensitive), the fight will last forever, literally.

In comparison: bosses like Brutus, Merveil, Vaal, Piety, Dominus might be difficult for the under-geared, but they are not impossible, since one can avoid/outplay the bosses' attacks/spells, and slowly chip away at their life bar. So, if someone has the willpower to beat a certain boss, even if it takes 1 hour, they can do it.

For Atziri, there's this sort of unspoken AoE DPS requirement: "If I don't do x AoE DPS, then I won't be able to beat her." This essentially means that people -- who otherwise might have been able to skillfully kill Atziri (with lower DPS) -- are shut out from the encounter.

It's an optional game content for which you can make a dedicated character if you want.
The game gives you full control to make specialist characters which excel at certain aspects of the game.

I think it's fine as it is now.

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Mannoth wrote:

It's an optional game content for which you can make a dedicated character if you want.
The game gives you full control to make specialist characters which excel at certain aspects of the game.

1) I'm just wondering, because I can't think of any other boss in the game (even the optional map bosses) that rely on a DPS check. You can pretty much beat any other boss with shit gear (although it'd take you a very long time). With Atziri, if you can't kill the minions fast enough, you're done. No exceptions. I mean, the minions don't really even interact with the player. They're basically walking healing-pots.

2) Also, define "optional", since everything outside of the barebones storyline can technically be considered optional. Does that mean Captain Fairgraves should do 10000000 fire damage in Normal Difficulty, since he's not required to progress through the storyline?

jungle valley
torture chamber
vaal temple
tunnel
labyrinth


all those impose hard checks to either dps or defense or both

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rrtson wrote:

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Mannoth wrote:

It's an optional game content for which you can make a dedicated character if you want.
The game gives you full control to make specialist characters which excel at certain aspects of the game.

1) I'm just wondering, because I can't think of any other boss in the game (even the optional map bosses) that rely on a DPS check. You can pretty much beat any other boss with shit gear (although it'd take you a very long time). With Atziri, if you can't kill the minions fast enough, you're done. No exceptions.

2) Also, define "optional", since everything outside of the barebones storyline can technically be considered optional. Does that mean Captain Fairgraves should do 10000000 fire damage in Normal Difficulty, since he's not required to progress through the storyline?

There is no quest line, and you get no irreplaceable progression as Fairgraves reward (skill point).
On a side note Fairgraves fight might be changed.

Killing atziri and not killing her yield the same actual result (except the +1 achievement).

As you said no main quest bosses require a dps check and are beatable by enoguh skill, but sooner or later a enemy which require building against was bound to happen anyway.

Edit:
jungle valley - flasks, decent aoe dps (15k~)
torture chamber - don't kill voltaxic spawns, run behind pillar when she fires laser, zerg her after)
vaal temple - never been there
tunnel - flask
labyrinth - smoke mine / flask

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SVD wrote:

jungle valley
torture chamber
vaal temple
tunnel
labyrinth


all those impose hard checks to either dps or defense or both

I think there's a pretty big difference between DPS-check and defense-check.

There are multiple ways to go about getting defense. Stack evasion so that monsters don't hit you? Perfectly fine. Stack armor so that if monsters hit you, you can absorb the damage? Also, perfectly fine. Stack life regen + life leech so that if you take a lot of damage, you can regen/leech it all back quickly? Again, also perfectly fine.

For DPS, it's simply: get damage to x number. If you don't have x damage, bye.

There are map bosses and vaal bosses and rouge exiles that would be DPS checks. Any that have life regen (eg. Xandro) would constitute a DPS check since in your definition, they cannot be "chipped away" at. ES shields or life leech on bosses/exiles may be a lesser example of that as well.

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SVD wrote:

jungle valley
torture chamber
vaal temple
tunnel
labyrinth


all those impose hard checks to either dps or defense or both

None of the ones you listed require a DPS check. Or you're not understanding what a DPS check is. DPS check = do certain damage within a given amount of time. Hence damage per second.

jungle valley = Avoid/tank spider spawns, chip away at main spider slowly when it appears.
torture chamber = Dodge the totems, hide behind pillar during laser, chip away at boss health.
vaal temple = Chip away at each boss slowly while running around in circles.
tunnel = Chip away at Sea Witch boss health. Sea witch spawns can be avoided.
labyrinth = Avoid devourers. Snipe boss's HP slowly.

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PhoeniXSkye wrote:

There are map bosses and vaal bosses and rouge exiles that would be DPS checks. Any that have life regen (eg. Xandro) would constitute a DPS check since in your definition, they cannot be "chipped away" at. ES shields or life leech on bosses/exiles may be a lesser example of that as well.

1) If you are constantly attacking a boss with ES, they cannot regen their ES, even if you do 1 damage to them. So, that is not considered a DPS check.

2) Xandro is another one that I think has poor design due to his life leech/regen (but I'm not going to get into that here).

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rrtson wrote:

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PhoeniXSkye wrote:

There are map bosses and vaal bosses and rouge exiles that would be DPS checks. Any that have life regen (eg. Xandro) would constitute a DPS check since in your definition, they cannot be "chipped away" at. ES shields or life leech on bosses/exiles may be a lesser example of that as well.

1) If you are constantly attacking a boss with ES, they cannot regen their ES, even if you do 1 damage to them. So, that is not considered a DPS check.

2) Xandro is another one that I think has poor design due to his life leech/regen (but I'm not going to get into that here).

Inga has her regen aura applied to ES instead of life. As I said the ES and LL ones are lesser examples. I'm sure there are more bosses/exiles that have this behavior but I just pulled out the ones that I know.