does GGG even ban RMTers

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Mivo wrote:

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Swagtrain wrote:

The part I highlighted is not true, I did none of that, and didn't even average close to 10 hours a day... people want to play the blame game.

So you have 200+ exalted orbs without:

- being lucky,
- playing 10h/day,
- RMTing,
- flipping?

I want to say I don't believe you, but then we'll just do the "did - didn't" game, and that is pointless. Besides, I don't know you. Maybe we have a different definition of what "being lucky" is.

There is no real secret or skill involved in "getting rich" in this game. What is involved are all things that have little to do with actually playing the game (trading isn't playing in the ARPG sense). People who don't want to have to do "un-fun" things, but still have competitive ambitions, probably make the biggest group of RMT customers.

That brings us right back to the issue of PoE's design encouraging RMTing instead of discouraging it.

Ty for explain it better than me, I am very bad today to describe my thinks (maybe because english is not my frist language :D)

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Bars wrote:

You are thinking of value in terms of currency exchange rates.

I'm thinking in 'wealth acquired to do what you want' terms. You need 'wealth' in this game to achieve stuff, if you think you don't you are clueless about how content/character building/etc. is gated behind paywalls in this game (and yes, a lot of the problems come from that).

1) You need wealth to roll maps and sustain your map pool. So you need wealth to keep xp'ing if you want to progress your character.
2) You need wealth to keep building your gear, because you need to gamble on 'crafting' what you want (because, well, good luck finding what you need as a drop considering the huge amount of possible bases that exist in the game lol).
3) You even need wealth to try this cool ideas you have on your characters because you need this specific X/Y/Z items.

Wealth is not currency only, is items in general (from orbs to maps, from craftables whites to excellent rares).

Sorry, I'm perfectly clear you can get a GS marauder and carry him to even beat Dominus Palace with enough given time. You may have fun doing the SF thing, the 'only blues' challenge, etc. Ok, you know, I've been playing this game since CB. That's not the point of the discussion, period.

The point is: when you start interacting with other players (and I call BULLSHIT on anyone who says he has accumulated 200 exalts without interacting with other players unless he has played in excess of 5k hours, which is impossible in a 4mo league), your effort is being undermined by other people RMT'ing and all the external influence on the economy (botters, RMT'ers whatever) distorting the whole economy.

Can we please stop all the offtopic about how much fun you can have beating the game in whites, how awesome you are because you managed to trade for 200ex and whatever stupid is being written in this thread?

Editted for formatting.

You are selectively interpreting some of the things I said to the point of putting words in my mouth. Example:

"Can we please stop all the offtopic about how much fun you can have beating the game in whites"

What you haven't misinterpreted, you have ignored.

You are not trying to have a constructive discussion and I won't waste my time in clarifying and re-explaining the obvious for the Nth time. I was trying to help you out since you are obviously frustrated and unhappy with the game, but it seems like a waste of breath at that point.

Have a good day.

(@Charan: do you see the difference? :))

I'm not selectively interpreting anything, is just that you have no point regarding this discussion. What am I missing? Is you who is missing the point.

You say "RMT is there, and will still be there, there is nothing we can do about that, better enjoy the game how it is or leave". Well, I call bullshit, there are things that can be done for legit players that (realistically, because yes, RMT will never be removed completely, but it can be diminished a lot) enjoy the core of the game to keep enjoying it and be disturbed the less possible. If I'm pissed about those is because I actually care and like a lot of the things that are in game, but I'm not contempt to see potential unleashed.

You think is good people leaves the game if they don't like how it is. I call that bad business practice (GGG is a business btw). One thing is "you can't please everyone", other is alienating potential/former customers. When I'm (everybody who criticizes stuff) gone and people left here cirrclejerking you think the game will be better?

The best thing is that many of those solutions were even hinted by GGG before you even started playing the game. Off course now are gone/long forgotten because of peregrine reasons. Priorities have shifted, and will leave it there as in something we can agree, this is a massive waste of time.

Sorry but I'm feed up with "we live in the best of all possible worlds" (pretty much what you say in your signature) attitude going around in this forums, specially when it's bullshit.

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(realistically, because yes, RMT will never be removed completely, but it can be diminished a lot)

Prove it. The only way it can be diminished a lot is if things become bind on account.

What are you missing? Pretty much everything, but, as I said - waste of breath.

I'm commenting again only because you made me chuckle:

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knac84 wrote:

Sorry

It's allright, you are forgiven *pats fondly on head*

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kasub wrote:

Prove it. The only way it can be diminished a lot is if things become bind on account.

How about we start by not rewarding RMTers with t-shirts and do away with legacy items? Those would be good first steps.

"Prove it" is meaningless, because no one here is in a position to make changes that are prerequisites for proving or disproving either theory. Only GGG can do that, and the recent decision to continue the trend with legacy items with even more vigor and determination seems to indicate that GGG is either unaware of how they encourage RMTing or that they don't care. There are some other options, but I think those two are the most likely.

Which do you think it is?

I find it amusing that both RMTers and many anti-RMTers seem to have a very similar mindset.

Both want access to the best ingame stuff while at the same time lacking the ability or the dedication to get them via legitimate means. RMTers then proceed to buy the items for real money. Anti-RMTers try to convince everybody else that the developers should adapt the game so that they can get what they want with exactly the ability and dedication they posess.

I do believe that the current state of the economy in standard is fine. There are some items that are insanely rare and expensive. And that is a good thing. They are a goal to work towards. If there were no such items the game would become boring very fast.

As for not being able to farm 200 exalted orbs in a reasonable amount of time: sorry this statement is wrong. It is certainly possible for a regular player to do that. It takes about 1 hour of mfing to get the equivalent of 1 ex. So that makes 200 hours of farming. No problem if you are dedicated. As it should be for the best in game items.

Of course there are shortcuts for those that like to play the economy game. But it is entirely possible without flipping/RMTin/nolifing.

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Faendris wrote:

It takes about 1 hour of mfing to get the equivalent of 1 ex.

Right. :)

An other guy who missed the point again... How many? The point is: do it w/o trading or interacting. If you don't, then RMT affects you, whether you agree or disagree it does because it influences the 'economy'. To get the 'equivalent of an exalt' (when you enter these terms you are demonstrating you are already thinking in exchange terms, so are already involved with trading) building a competent MF'ing char on your own will take lots of effort (a plus for doing it on HC); so we are a talking a case of being involved with the economy already.

The other stuff is pretty much made up ("you want to get something without working for it", and how is this "working for it" measured anyway? are you going to achieve the same by flipping items or hack'n'slashing? but that's other topic, although everything is pretty much related; you worked for it if u got a lucky drop an other guy did not get pretty much anything over the same period of time? "get good" at rng? lol? "get good" at trading? lol? I don't even). Because you think something is fine does not it make fine, at all.


As for "proving" things, no one in this thread is at the position where you can prove anything because we cannot make changes to the game. It's faux logic. But we can say for example: was RMT more or less intrusive in D2 than PoE? The key here is "intrusive" because what the developer should try to achieve is make RMT the least intrusive possible for legit players (lessen the gap). From there you can work it out.


As for solutions, there are many, for starters sticking to your own plan (releasing different ruleset leagues, as was planned; releasing user leagues; maybe both extreme, but both planned), second being a bit more creative or less intrusive yourself (how about implementing real crafting system, what about reducing the layers of rng redundancy, what about getting rid of this terrible idea of having to "pay to access content" as sink and adding other endgame systems if you want to add deflators and sinks).


But hey, we live in the best of the possible worlds, let the circlejerk commence.