Cast Spell on Movement

Trigger gems should fall into two categories:
1) Gems which trigger when you do something good; these should always be forced to link directly to the skill which makes the good thing happen. Examples: Cast on Critical Strike, Curse on Hit.
2) Gems which trigger when something bad happens; these should be stand-alone. Examples: Cast when Damage Taken, Cast when Stunned.

This gem falls into neither category. Movement is simply too useful and too easy to trigger. I'd even be against a "Cast on Block" gem, which would be much closer to a good suggestion than this one.

-1

How about "Cast when Friend logs on" or "Cast when Guildmember logs off" as well?

"Cast When Someone Makes A Stupid Reply In One Of Your Threads" could work out as well, but it would need a very small chance, otherwise it'd be an insane spam.

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Nurvus wrote:

4 - I particularly like the idea of counting movement from abilities like Lightning Warp, Whirling Blades, Cyclone, Flicker Strike and Leap Slam.

Flicker strike, multistrike, blood rage would probably trigger this skill too often. Could be resolved with a cooldown on the skill or by only counting the distance the character would have travelled if walking normally while using a mouvement skill

Lightning warp able to trigger itself would be interesting (as long as you have 2 active at good distance from one another)

+1 for this one, I'm sure GGG can figure a way to balance it

Once again pointing out that I suck at theory crafting, I have to ask what the point of such a trigger would be. What is it intended to accomplish that wouldn't be considered broken?

If we assume the revisions that Nurvus wrote out, particularly only casting untargeted spells, I can see 3 uses (given the limited number of spells that do not require a target), 2 of which I would consider broken and the third useless.

1) spamming Nova skills as you move -- basically a support gem to mimic a Domination shrine. Personally, I think just spreading the shrines to all leagues is the better option for the game, as it at least carries some degree of risk to gain the benefit and has a limited duration where as such a trigger gem would not.

2) spamming EC and MS -- triggering these two skills is incredibly powerful, enough so that the existing trigger that has been used to support it was nerfed pretty much immediately after implementation. Removing the threat from such an automatic trigger by initiating off of movement rather than damage would once again be broken, in my view.

3) casting auras -- this is the pointless one. Every few steps auras toggle between on and off. Rather foolish to even consider.


I am unable to picture how targeted skills would benefit unless you're looking to do something along the lines of Shield Charge and initiate a spell at the end of a kamikaze run to an enemy, in which case it would seem more balanced to me to force manual casting.


What am I missing that prompted this suggestion, OP? Or do you simply disagree that the above scenarios would be broken?

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Thaelyn wrote:

I am unable to picture how targeted skills would benefit unless you're looking to do something along the lines of Shield Charge and initiate a spell at the end of a kamikaze run to an enemy, in which case it would seem more balanced to me to force manual casting.


What am I missing that prompted this suggestion, OP? Or do you simply disagree that the above scenarios would be broken?

First of all: This is just an idea, a basic concept. I don't know anything about balancing or how it would effect the game at all. I can imagine it maybe, but I think I leave this point to GGG.

Secondly: About target skills, there is an easy solution. The closest enemy next to you gets targeted. It already works with multistrike: if the first dual strike kills your opponent, the next 2 will aim for the next closest enemy. So target spells shouldn't be a problem with this gem.

Third: Yes, the balancing could be hard. Like I said, it really needs a combination of traveling distance (like 3feet) and a chance to trigger the linked spell (like 10% at lvl1). So every 3feet you have a chance of 10% to cast the linked spell. In avarage you must move 30 feet to get at least one trigger through this gem. With higher levels, the chance to trigger increases, while quality gives you more movement speed.


I mean, common. Ever read the guide for ethereal knives? This guy spams hundreds of ethereal knives per second with cast on damage taken. Or imagine a build with wands and cast on crit. You can easily get 50% crit chance with wands and if you combine that with cast on crit, you can cast dozens of skills at once. So I dont think this skill would be more broken compare to other trigger gems...

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AceNightfire wrote:

I mean, common. Ever read the guide for ethereal knives? This guy spams hundreds of ethereal knives per second with cast on damage taken. Or imagine a build with wands and cast on crit. You can easily get 50% crit chance with wands and if you combine that with cast on crit, you can cast dozens of skills at once. So I dont think this skill would be more broken compare to other trigger gems...

I think you're reffering to pneuma's "cactuar" build casting 2.5 Etheral knives each time he's hit using 5 cast when stunned linked to 12 Elemental knives, some with life leech, 0 armor, 0 evasion dual wielder with 75% block, Stone of Lazhwar unique, Chaos Innoculation, Ghost Reaver and Vaal Pact passive...
Been nerfed in the most recent patch (1.0.2): Cast When Stunned now has a 250ms cooldown. This is a new gem and some balancing are still happening

The main problem I see with Cast on mouvement skillgem isn't balancing it properly for casual player but for advanced theorycrafter

For example, if this skill work with movement gem then someone could try something like

A level 40 character built around Flickerstrike-multistrike and cast on movement-EK-EK-EK for every other gemslot. without any passive or equipment execpt for a common 1.7 attack speed thrusting sword (and + 2 frenzy charge) will travel more than 2 screen worth of distance each second.


Using this setup

Helmet: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Armor: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Gloves: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Boots: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Sword: Flickerstrike + multistrike --- Blood Rage
Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK

Assuming you need to travel 2 screen worth of distance to have a chance to trigger this gem.
Assuming the chances to cast are the same that Cast when Stunned (38%)
and assuming a 250 ms cd on this skill

This character, level 40 would cast ~3.2 Etheral knive each second for free (5.32 without the 250 ms cd) WITHOUT PASSIVE OR EQUIPEMENT
(I cheated, this character would need a way to keep casting Flickerstrike: ~48 Mana/second. Removing 4 EK to add 2 mana leech and 2 life leech would bring it down to 2.55 cast/second)
Now replace EK with lightning warp and you may enter an almost-infinite loop

Now If you decide to give less chance to cast for less distance travelled It would become even more insane as every Cast on distance travelled could trigger up to 4 EK each second


Or one could simply build around this support with quality, arctic armour with quality some quicksilver flask with bonus movement, haste aura and movement gear and some passive to run through map while safely clearing them

So good concept, hard to balance

as I said good idea, +1

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Erikulum wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

I mean, common. Ever read the guide for ethereal knives? This guy spams hundreds of ethereal knives per second with cast on damage taken. Or imagine a build with wands and cast on crit. You can easily get 50% crit chance with wands and if you combine that with cast on crit, you can cast dozens of skills at once. So I dont think this skill would be more broken compare to other trigger gems...

I think you're reffering to pneuma's "cactuar" build casting 2.5 Etheral knives each time he's hit using 5 cast when stunned linked to 12 Elemental knives, some with life leech, 0 armor, 0 evasion dual wielder with 75% block, Stone of Lazhwar unique, Chaos Innoculation, Ghost Reaver and Vaal Pact passive...
Been nerfed in the most recent patch (1.0.2): Cast When Stunned now has a 250ms cooldown. This is a new gem and some balancing are still happening

The main problem I see with Cast on mouvement skillgem isn't balancing it properly for casual player but for advanced theorycrafter

For example, if this skill work with movement gem then someone could try something like

A level 40 character built around Flickerstrike-multistrike and cast on movement-EK-EK-EK for every other gemslot. without any passive or equipment execpt for a common 1.7 attack speed thrusting sword (and + 2 frenzy charge) will travel more than 2 screen worth of distance each second.

Proof

Character level 40
1.7 attack/second thrusting sword
Level 10 flicker strike +32% increased attack speed
Level 8 multistrike +95% more attack speed

For 4 attack per second
Now let say this guy run blood rage to spam flickerstrike
and let say he only have +2 charge for now (max 5)
+5x15 = +75% increased attack speed (on flicker strike only)
he go up to 6.9 attack/second
Flicker screen can travel farther but ussually travel around a third of the screen with a build like that So, more than 2 screen worth of distance every second.

Using this setup

Helmet: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Armor: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Gloves: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Boots: Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK - EK
Sword: Flickerstrike + multistrike --- Blood Rage
Cast on distance travelled - EK - EK

Assuming you need to travel 2 screen worth of distance to have a chance to trigger this gem.
Assuming the chances to cast are the same that Cast when Stunned (38%)
and assuming a 250 ms cd on this skill

This character, level 40 would cast ~3.2 Etheral knive each second for free (5.32 without the 250 ms cd) WITHOUT PASSIVE OR EQUIPEMENT

Now If you decide to give less chance to cast for less distance travelled It would become even more insane as every Cast on distance travelled could trigger up to 4 EK each second

Or one could simply build around this support with quality, arctic armour with quality some quicksilver flask with bonus movement, haste aura and movement gear and some passive to run through map while safely clearing them

So good concept, hard to balance

as I said good idea, +1

I dont know if I misunderstood you, but havent you forgot the 10% chance in your calculations I was talking about? 3,2 ethereal knives IF you trigger all gems. With a 10% chance, it's highly unlikely that all get triggered.

And well, even if, then there is one solution (you posted it): Give it a 250ms cooldown. Even with whirling blades etc. you will only trigger that gem 4 times per second at maximum (and only with extremely high movement speed).

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AceNightfire wrote:

I dont know if I misunderstood you, but havent you forgot the 10% chance in your calculations I was talking about? 3,2 ethereal knives IF you trigger all gems. With a 10% chance, it's highly unlikely that all get triggered.

No, 3.2 cast each second is considering you only have 38% chance to trigger each gem by running 2 screen(the chance cast when stun have to trigger)

But let say 10% chance to trigger each 4 distance unit travelled, the screen have around 18 unit (I guess since firestorm take about half the screen with 9 unit)

6.9 attack/second travelling a total of ~36 unit (2 screen)

Cast on movement gem have 3 time 10% chance to proc a EK each time the gem trigger.(27.1?)
let just use 4 Cast on movement
The gem would trigger 9 time in a second, 4 gem at 27.1% chance to proc

You could cast more than 8 spell each second for free this way, even with a 250 ms cd

***these calcul use aproximative data***

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AceNightfire wrote:

And well, even if, then there is one solution (you posted it): Give it a 250ms cooldown. Even with whirling blades etc. you will only trigger that gem 4 times per second at maximum (and only with extremely high movement speed).

5 gem * 4 cast/sec = 20 cast/second max

Look for a flicker strike-multistrike build on youtube, you'll understand how insanelly fast this can get