Avatar of Fire ~ Elemental Damage Nodes

Sorry if this has already been answered. If so just lead me in the direction of it. Onto the question.

I was wanting to know how exactly Avatar of Fire (AoF) works with elemental damage nodes.

Following example: Shock Nova with AoF and a 8% Elemental Damage node.

The question I wanted to know is: Does Elemental damage first add 8% lightning damage portion to the shock nova and then precedes to be cut in half by AoF. Once that happens does Elemental damage then add it's 8% fire portion to the AoF.

I would really like to know in-depth how this keystone works.
Thank you for help and patience with this.

PS: Does spell damage work in the same sense as this?
Last edited by TheFalseKing on Nov 25, 2013, 3:12:37 AM
Bump
Each line adds either one time or zero times. It's a true/false situation.

For example, if you have "+8% Elemental Damage" and you're looking at Lightning Damage that's being converted to Fire Damage, the game will ask "Is this Elemental?," say "yes," then add 8% once.

In contrast, if that node said "+8% Fire Damage; +8% Lightning Damage," then it would ask "Is this Fire?" say "yes," then add 8%, then ask "Is this Lightning?" also say yes, and add another 8%.
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Last edited by Rachel_GGG on Sep 31, 2018 0:61:72 PM
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Nov 25, 2013, 5:22:59 AM
And a third example: if you have "8% Increased Fire and Lightning Damage", it will ask "Is this Fire or Lightning?", once. If yes, add 8% Increased Damage.
Armour and Evasion passives are an example of this in practice.

All modifiers are applied at the same stage, after Conversion. The Converted damage does benefit from the source-type's damage bonuses.
Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 25, 2013, 9:48:44 AM
So let's say I'm using a AoF build with Blackgleam (so 100% fire damage with a bow), a 8% physical damage node would give me the same damage as a 8% WED node?

To put things into more perspective, I plan to have a Burning Arrow + AFD + WED setup for both single-target and AoE. Which type of node would give me more damage? I get the feeling that the WED passive will still give more due to the WED support gem.
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Last edited by Islidox on Nov 25, 2013, 10:08:21 AM
Effectively, Increased WED and Increased Physical Damage are the exact same modifier: Increased Damage. They are always of equal strength if they apply to the exact same value.

However, they apply to slightly different values. Flat Elemental damage does not benefit from Increased Physical Damage. That is the only difference between the two for an AoF Attacker; everything else is both Elemental and derived-from-Physical.

With zero flat Elemental Damage modifiers, all your damage is Fire-from-Physical, which makes Increased Physical and Increased WED equal. With each point of Flat Elemental Damage, WED gains an edge.

-----------------
More Damage has no effect on the effectiveness of different Increased Damage sources; the WED support does not make Increased WED any stronger.

Say you have 100 Physical damage Converted to Fire, 0% Increased/More damage.
10% Phys damage gets you 10 Fire Damage
10% Fire damage gets you 10 Fire Damage
10% WED gets you 10 Fire Damage

With only 50% More WED, you now deal 150 Phys-to-Fire Damage.
10% Phys nets 15 Damage
10% Fire nets 15 Damage
10% WED nets 15 Damage

I normally apply More Damage after Increased Damage, but because they're just two separate multipliers, the order doesn't actually matter (100 * 1.1 * 1.5 = 100 * 1.5 * 1.1). It's just less confusing to use the same order of operations everywhere :P Not sure what the game actually does.
Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 25, 2013, 10:34:41 AM
Thanks for the reply, Vipermagi.

I'm just figuring out which notables/passives to take first, which means which passives give me more bang for buck compared to those that are still good but can be saved for later. Since PD/WED is the same for my case, taking the more powerful bow notables will be a better choice first before hitting up Catalyze. I assume Lava Lash acts like a .30 additive modifier as with the rest of the IPD/WED nodes in this case.

For Ranger build tips, tactics, and critiques, visit this thread:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/69224
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Each line adds either one time or zero times. It's a true/false situation.

For example, if you have "+8% Elemental Damage" and you're looking at Lightning Damage that's being converted to Fire Damage, the game will ask "Is this Elemental?," say "yes," then add 8% once.

In contrast, if that node said:
"+8% Fire Damage
+8% Lightning Damage" then it would ask "Is this Fire?" say "yes," then add 8%, then ask "Is this Lightning?" also say yes, and add another 8%.
"
Vipermagi wrote:
And a third example: if you have "8% Increased Fire and Lightning Damage", it will ask "Is this Fire or Lightning?", once. If yes, add 8% Increased Damage.
Armour and Evasion passives are an example of this in practice.

All modifiers are applied at the same stage, after Conversion. The Converted damage does benefit from the source-type's damage bonuses.

Thanks Scrotie and Vipermagi, these posts together are probably the best short explaination of this stuff so far, and will be useful to link people to (although I've taken the libery of editing my quote of Scrotie's post to make it clearer that the two bonuses were on separate lines).
How does say lavalash work with the ignite if you were to use aof + burning arrow/infernal blow?
If lavalash does double dip on both direct damage and the ignite, would weapon elemental also work this way?
"
Hollu wrote:
How does say lavalash work with the ignite if you were to use aof + burning arrow/infernal blow?
If lavalash does double dip on both direct damage and the ignite, would weapon elemental also work this way?


Doesn't work at all. Lava lash increases weapon elemental damage, 'weapon' as 'weapon attack', and DoT isn't tagged as 'attack'.
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