Cleave: The dual wielding penalty for Cleave is now multiplicative and includes elemental damage.
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can some1 explain me this?
i dont really understand it... Cleave: The dual wielding penalty for Cleave is now multiplicative and includes elemental damage Original Cleave: Dual Wielding: If the player's weapons have different critical strike chance values, it is possible to critical with one weapon, but not the other. It is also possible to miss with only one of the weapons swung. The decrease to dual wielding damage is additive (not multiplicative). The character tab DPS display is inaccurate for this skill because it doesn't currently account properly for dual wielding attacks. Last edited by 1mark#6381 on Oct 22, 2013, 6:14:56 PM
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TL.DR: R.I.P. all cleaves.
This message was delivered by GGG defence force.
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" . |
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tldr cleave now not the only option
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Cleave used to only have 40% reduced damage dealt, not 40% less, so if you took 2 passives that gave you 40% increased phys damage you'll have already completely covered up the loss from cleave. Now it will take all damage from passives, weapons, gear, whatever then at the end of it all cut that total by 40%.
Cleaves damage penalty also did not apply to elemental damage before now, so it was free double damage like dual strike, but with a big AOE. The fact that it took this many years to change is kind of ridiculous. Now there's actually a reason to use something other than cleave when dual wielding, which before now made axes and swords all you'd ever used as a DW character. IGN: Asser, AssDelver, Assphobic, AnointedAss, BetrayedByMyAss, CrackedAss, FracturedAss, FulcrumedUpMyAss, ImpaledAss, IncursionOfTheAss, WarForTheAss, UnleashTheAss, ScreamingAsshole, SwampAssKing, Yui Last edited by Wooser69#4318 on Oct 22, 2013, 6:26:03 PM
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So instead 40% reduced physical damage, you now have 40% less damage I guess. Means cleave is down from 140% efficiency while dual welding, to 84%. RIP my BoR cleave, rest in peace, Reave is on the way. Probably dual welding RIP overall.
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" This. It's going be a gigantic hit in DPS. Especially since you can't wear multiple auras anymore and it is rather unlikely the new changes will increase aura effectiveness multiple times (which it would have to do to stay even with just you missing auras). @Aelloon
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"The funny thing about 90% of gamers is that they only consider the endgame; mostly end-game maps, if you're lucky maybe portions of Merciless. This is where most of the balance attention goes. However, the early game matters too. Especially for racing, where a huge portion of a player's time is spent at low levels. And from a racing perspective, no single skill in the game has ever been more OP than Cleave. People who are running Templar actually start races as Duelist, kill Hillock, stash the Cleave, and then switch to Templar. In week races, caster builds start off going Cleave (using the Duelist trick) and switch over to actual spells sometime in late Cruel or early Merciless. Cleave is most likely single-handedly responsible for the Duelist domination of the Descent race format. Cleave has been format-warping, idiot-strong OP. And it's been that way for a while. This is definitely a good change for racing. I'm not so sure if it's a good change from a more conventional perspective. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 22, 2013, 6:32:38 PM
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" Example, your current build: 400 str = 80% increased melee physical damage. 100% increased one handed damage from passives. 49% more melee physical damage from lvl 20 melee physical damage Current cleave: 76% increased physical damage from lvl 20 cleave. 40% reduced physical damage from cleave. (80+100+76-40)*1.49 = 321.8% increased damage with dual wield cleave. New cleave: 76% increased physical damage from lvl 20 cleave. 40% less physical damage from cleave. (80+100+76)*1.49*0.6 = 228.8% increased damage with dual wield cleave. For physical cleave, you are losing about 30%~ of your current damage/dps. With more increased damage from passives etc the difference can go up to 40%. All ele cleave (not counting the aura changes) will lose at least 40% of their damage. With the new aura changes you can expect to lose up to 60-70% of your dps as an ele cleaver. |
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" ~in a perfect world~ there wouldn't be any skills that explicitly favour dual wield, but dual wielding itself was good enough without having to rely on specific skills to make it work like dual strike or cleave. Personally I think they ought to ditch dual strike and the cleave bonus (still 60% of 200!) and make the base dual wield mechanics better. Instead of more attack speed having the execute system like in torchlight 2 where every now and then you'd hit with both weapons to simulate the current dual strike. Like if any and all crits hit with both for double damage plus multiplier and DW gave an implicit additional 10% crit chance like it does with block. Also dual wield different ranged weapons like a wand and a sword, using whichever has the most reach. Would be interesting with weapons that have different ranges. Basically make DW in POE as good as it was in TL2. IGN: Asser, AssDelver, Assphobic, AnointedAss, BetrayedByMyAss, CrackedAss, FracturedAss, FulcrumedUpMyAss, ImpaledAss, IncursionOfTheAss, WarForTheAss, UnleashTheAss, ScreamingAsshole, SwampAssKing, Yui Last edited by Wooser69#4318 on Oct 22, 2013, 6:43:03 PM
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