Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
Its only to reduce the number of garbage items on the screen. If you have item quantity of 50%, you gain 50% more of all items (whites, rares). If you have rarity of 50%, you gain 50% more valuable items. (not whites). Basically, people in parties will be getting less white items, and less currency items than they did before. If they keep the values the same, they should still see the same number of rare items. If this is the case, it would actually be more of a downside to parties than to solo. (at least how I view the math anyway)
Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
Did you also read the the part about this not being set in stone?
Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
I'm not sure if I understand why you made this post.
1) The changes will mean a net decrease in the amount of useful drops for a multiplayer party, assuming you had a culler/mf person with you.
Spoiler
For example
a) Old system
If you had +200% quantity from multiple players before, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 200% (party bonus) means you're getting 400% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) = 400% bonus to rares
Overall, you'd be getting 100items/hour * 4.0 * 4.0 = 1600rares/hour (split 5 ways, so 320items/hour total)
b) New system
If you have +50% quantity from multiple players, and +150% rarity from multiple players, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 50% (party bonus) means you're getting 250% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) + 150% (party bonus) = 550% bonus to rares
Overall, now you get 100items/hour * 2.5 * 5 = 1250 rares/hour (split five ways, so 250 items/hour total)
No matter how the split happens, if they reduce item quantity bonus from party, there will be a net decrease to the rares found by full MF groups.
2) The changes will have zero impact on solo players.
Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
I'm not sure if I understand why you made this post.
1) The changes will mean a net decrease in the amount of useful drops for a multiplayer party, assuming you had a culler/mf person with you.
Spoiler
For example
a) Old system
If you had +200% quantity from multiple players before, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 200% (party bonus) means you're getting 400% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) = 400% bonus to rares
Overall, you'd be getting 100items/hour * 4.0 * 4.0 = 1600rares/hour (split 5 ways, so 320items/hour total)
b) New system
If you have +50% quantity from multiple players, and +150% rarity from multiple players, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 50% (party bonus) means you're getting 250% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) + 150% (party bonus) = 550% bonus to rares
Overall, now you get 100items/hour * 2.5 * 5 = 1250 rares/hour (split five ways, so 250 items/hour total)
No matter how the split happens, if they reduce item quantity bonus from party, there will be a net decrease to the rares found by full MF groups.
2) The changes will have zero impact on solo players.
Maybe I misread the original announcement, but didn't they say they are removing quantity gem and mods from gear? So, if that's true, then at least for the new leagues, it would be a slight nerf for solo players (currency wise, will say).
Chris said the party bonus will be more oriented to rarity instead of quantity. I understand the quantity because there's more people in the party to split the drops but the rarity annoys me a bit.
I can't avoid to feel that this is a kick in the nuts to us solo players.
Unless you give us (solo players) the option to /players <1-6>, I believe this is a bit unfair.
Please GGG do not forget that a lot of us don't want to be in a party, ladder or trade and still would like to have a fair chance at end game. I love almost everything about PoE, the only thing unbalanced, to the point of feeling broken, is the drop rates. I'm even ok by having to create a MF character, but be forced to play in a party or multibox is a deal breaker :(
I'm not sure if I understand why you made this post.
1) The changes will mean a net decrease in the amount of useful drops for a multiplayer party, assuming you had a culler/mf person with you.
Spoiler
For example
a) Old system
If you had +200% quantity from multiple players before, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 200% (party bonus) means you're getting 400% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) = 400% bonus to rares
Overall, you'd be getting 100items/hour * 4.0 * 4.0 = 1600rares/hour (split 5 ways, so 320items/hour total)
b) New system
If you have +50% quantity from multiple players, and +150% rarity from multiple players, and the MF person had 300% rarity, +100% quantity, and the base amount of rares is 100/hour.
100% (base) + 100% (gear) + 50% (party bonus) means you're getting 250% of base items
100% rarity (base) + 300% rarity (MF gear) + 150% (party bonus) = 550% bonus to rares
Overall, now you get 100items/hour * 2.5 * 5 = 1250 rares/hour (split five ways, so 250 items/hour total)
No matter how the split happens, if they reduce item quantity bonus from party, there will be a net decrease to the rares found by full MF groups.
2) The changes will have zero impact on solo players.
Maybe I misread the original announcement, but didn't they say they are removing quantity gem and mods from gear? So, if that's true, then at least for the new leagues, it would be a slight nerf for solo players (currency wise, will say).
They're removing the quantity mod on gear, so by moving the group bonus from quantity to rarity, that further nerfs group bonus
For example: (using 100/hour as a hypothetical base rarefind)
1) Current system
Solo player with 25% quantity gem and +200% rarity, finds 375 rares/hour
Party using that gem (225% quantity total) and +200% rarity, finds 975 rares/hour (~200/person)
2) New system
Solo player only has 200% rarity (no quantity) and finds 300 rares/hour
Party has no gem, and their quantity bonus moves to rarity, for +400% rarity total, so 500 rares/hour (~100/person)
Numbers are made up, but the ratio of items should be roughly accurate.
I'm not sure if I understand why you made this post.
1) The changes will mean a net decrease in the amount of useful drops for a multiplayer party, assuming you had a culler/mf person with you.
2) The changes will have zero impact on solo players.
I'm not sure your example reflects the changes to party MF.
"
Chris wrote:
The party bonus to item drops is being changed so that it is more in the direction of Item Rarity and doesn't have as much affect on Item Quantity (you still find the same rate of Magic/Rare/Unique items as before)
My understanding is that the net amount of rares/uniques will stay the same in a party. But the amount of rare and uniques will increase with each party member.
Let me try to give an example (please bear with my English).
Solo player has 200 IIR and the party culler has also 200 IIR.
Solo player kills 1 monster and 1 item drops. In the old system, party with 4 will drop 4 items, each one with 200 IIR. In the new system party will drop less than 4 items but with better IIR. More good uniques will drop in a party. They already do now because of the increased IIQ but this change will make the advantage of being in a party even bigger.
Solo player has 200 IIR and the party culler has also 200 IIR.
Solo player kills 1 monster and 1 item drops. In the old system, party with 4 will drop 4 items, each one with 200 IIR. In the new system party will drop less than 4 items but with better IIR. More good uniques will drop in a party. They already do now because of the increased IIQ but this change will make the advantage of being in a party even bigger.
Essentially, the way it works is that if you have any two variables (IQ and IR in this case) and there is a cap on how much of them you can get combined, you maximize your outcome if those variables are as close to each other as possible. (This is an optimization problem if you're familiar with them, for example, a square has the largest possible area:side ratio for all 4 sided shapes)
For example just using plain numbers:
a x b = c
1 x 7 = 7
2 x 4 = 8
3 x 5 = 15
4 x 4 = 16
In each case, "a" + "b" = 8, but the resulting "c" value was higher when "a" and "b" were close to each other.
In POE right now, you generally see roughly:
0% IQ and 0% IR (solo) = 100% rares overall
200% IQ and 0% IR (group) = 300% rares overall (60% per person)
100%IQ and 300%IR (MFsolo) = 800% rares overall
300%IQ and 300%IR (MFgroup) = 1600% rares overall (220% per person)
In release, those "a" and "b" values from above are moving further from each other, which will nerf people (both group and solo) stackingrarity by lowering their quantity counterpart:
0% IQ and 0% IR (solo) = 100% rares overall
0% IQ and 200% IR (group) = 300% rares overall (60% per person)
50%IQ and 300%IR (MFsolo) = 600% rares overall
50%IQ and 500%IR (MFgroup) = 750% rares overall (150% per person)
This is the same reason currently that someone with 200% rarity/quantity will find more items than someone with 100%/300%. By making IQ not group based, and making it harder to come by, IR will become less valuable, and so the group bonus will be weaker overall.
This is all going on the assumption that it will be a 1:1 conversion, meaning the 200%IQ bonus currently will be moved to a 200%IR bonus in release. If this is not the case, then the devs will be by default balancing IR around a presumed specific value of IQ they guess most parties will have. That could be something that happens, but I think it would cause more problems than it helps, because then you'd enter weird situations where grouping was beneficial to drops if you had a culler with >x%IQ, and detrimental otherwise.
Last edited by FacetiousTomato#6647 on Oct 15, 2013, 6:18:50 PM
when you see the problem as a calculus issue ,please take into consideration that 2IIR= 1 IIQ ,in terms of affix values and item budget ( i mean that the rarity gem is around 60+% rarity while the quantity gem is around 30+% , same goes for the last rarity affix which is almost 2 times that of the end game quantity affix)
therefor a 200 iiq 200 iir ,setup is equivalent to a 0iiq 600 iir in terms of item budget . seing that andvarius exists and gives easy access to rarity , quantity is the item affix people should aim for ,before they try to solve their efficient equation .
and it is this exact stat that GGG decided to remove . no shit sherlock .
