I made a build with max block, evasion and acrobatics after reading evasion mechanics in http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Evasion.
It says that if enemy has 20% chance to hit, they wont go on a lucky streak of %20 hits. Even if they manage to hit you, then they will fail next 4 attacks during next 6 secs. Or this was the way I interpreted it.
So now I have a char with shield, grace, tempest shield, anvil necklace and defense tab reads as;
Chance to Dodge: %30
Chance to Block: %70
Chance to Evade: %63
And that means my chance of getting hit on the first attack is (1-0.3)*(1-0.7)*(1-0.63) = %7.7
Even if the enemy makes that lucky hit I am supposed to be safe for the next 6 seconds. But that does not happen. I understand that evasion safety calculation is separate for each creature, so when I am surrounded things are more likely to get messed up, but 1 on 1 should prove safe.
Yet I died so many times in melee in same 6 seconds 1 on 1. And not only against rares, or even magic monsters. Even those regular bears in merciless dread thicket hit me on first hit, then hit again before 6 second pass.
So my question is;
1. Do I misunderstood the mechanics, if so can someone explain it better?
2. Does some monsters have sure hit (like the passive keystone)
3. Or is evasion mechanics broken, and the number shows in Defense is off?
The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG
Pure evasion always sucks. You got around 60% EV which basically means you get hit roughly every second hit or 50/50 chance of getting hit pretty much.
So now I have a char with shield, grace, tempest shield, anvil necklace and defense tab reads as;
Chance to Dodge: %30
Chance to Block: %70
Chance to Evade: %63
And that means my chance of getting hit on the first attack is (1-0.3)*(1-0.7)*(1-0.63) = %7.7
Even if the enemy makes that lucky hit I am supposed to be safe for the next 6 seconds. But that does not happen.
A few things:
- I don't get where you got the idea from that you would be safe for 6 seconds. Could you explain? Did you maybe mean that you'd be safe for 6 attacks rather than seconds? That still wouldn't be correct, but it would make more sense.
- Dodge, block, and evade are all separate mechanics that are calculated separately. Just because you didn't dodge an attack, it doesn't mean that you will block the next one. They aren't connected. They do work in strings as you suggested, but it's separate strings for each mechanic.
- The numbers in the character sheet are averages. They will vary based on monster level and accuracy.
Last edited by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 20, 2013, 6:02:59 AM
..Even those regular bears in merciless dread thicket hit me on first hit, then hit again before 6 second pass.
..
When you´re over 50% evade you shouldn´t be hit twice in a row by the same mob in under 6 seconds. Werd.
Just that you get how the entropy system works (cuz i don´t find the wiki article very good) here the post from Mark_GGG about it
Spoiler
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
So I've been asked for details of evasion over PM, and don't want to have to keep giving single replies to more people in future, so since I don't think it's all been laid out in one place yet, it will be here.
Evasion in PoE is not fully random.
Each entity in the world contains an 'evasion entropy' value, between 1 and 100. The higher this value is, the more likely they are to be hit by the next attack. The initial value is random.
Every time something attacks you, they calculate their chance to hit as a percentage. That value is added to your evasion entropy. If the result exceeds 100, you're hit, and 100 is subtracted from the value. If the value hasn't reached 100, you're not hit.
Before anyone starts clamouring that they're not getting their actual chance to hit/evade, let's examine this mechanic in a bit more detail. Take the simple example of 100% chance to hit. Since you always add 100 to the entropy, it'll always exceed 100, and thus always hit, which is correct. The case of 0% chance to hit can similarly be trivially shown to be correct.
So let's look at 50% chance to hit. Since the initial value is random from 1-100, there's a 50% chance that the initial entropy value is higher than 50%, in which case adding the 50 from chance to hit will exceed 100 and thus hit, and a 50% chance the value is 50% or less, in which case adding 50 will not exceed 100, and thus not hit. So the first hit has a 50% chance to hit, as it should.
The second hit also has a 50% chance to hit, but will never hit if the first one does - provided you're only getting hit by things with 50% chance to hit you, you'll evade every second attack, and be hit by the others.
Let's say the initial entropy was 42. The first hit increases this to 92, and misses. The second raises it to 142, hitting, and then subtracts 100 from the value, leaving it back at 42.
I'll leave other percentages as an exercise for the reader, but they all work out - if an attack has 25% chance to hit you, every fourth attack will hit, and so on.
This is the mechanic by which streakiness is removed from evasion - it removes the possibility of failing to evade happening to come up several times in a row due to bad luck. Each attack has the correct chance to hit, and will hit you just as often as you'd expect in the average case using a purely random system, but the possibility of occasional but devastating non-average results - such as being hit by four consecutive attacks with only 10% chance to hit each - have been eliminated.
Some caveats:
1) If an attack would crit you, evasion is tested a second time, and if you evade, the hit is downgraded to a non-crit (it does not miss, since it's already tested for that and hit). This roll is purely random and does not increase the entropy value - it just generates a number from 1 to 100 and compares to the chance to hit. Details of why are in the spoiler.
Spoiler
Given that this, if it occurs, would always be the next evasion test after the one to see if it hit, then if this did use the entropy value, then having above 50% chance to evade would make you immune to critical strikes, since you can't fail two successive evasion checks on entropy if their chance to hit is below 50%. If you were hit, that means you just failed the evasion check to evade the attack, and thus the entropy is such that the second test would be unable to hit you, and the crit would downgrade, whereas if it failed to hit in the first place, then critting or not is irrelevant.
While the concept of being so evasive you can't be crit is cool, the above behaviour is undesirable, and so checking chance to hit for the purposes of confirming a crit should actually stay a crit does not test entropy. Testing chance to hit for the purposes of actually hitting is always done via the entropy value.
2) Whenever the entropy value would be used, if a certain short amount of time has passed since the last time this occurred, a new random initial value is chosen. This prevents the player from waiting near a weak enemy until it hits (leaving them on a low entropy value), then running to a boss fight, to start knowing they'll have the maximum number of attacks evaded before they get hit. Entropy will perform it's function as long as you're continuously being attacked, but don't expect to transfer it from fight to fight.
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
Last edited by Spysong192#7559 on Sep 20, 2013, 6:10:08 AM
- I don't get where you got the idea from that you would be safe for 6 seconds. Could you explain? Did you maybe mean that you'd be safe for 6 attacks rather than seconds? That still wouldn't be correct, but it would make more sense.
- Dodge, block, and evade are all separate mechanics that are calculated separately. Just because you didn't dodge an attack, it doesn't mean that you will block the next one. They aren't connected. They do work in strings as you suggested, but it's separate strings for each mechanic.
- The numbers in the character sheet are averages. They will vary based on monster level and accuracy.
I got 6 seconds from the linked page where it explains the evasion mechanics, and the forum page linked to it. (where someone from GGG explains it). There is a safety mechanism that will make sure you will dodge %(your dodge chance) of the attacks in 6 seconds. Every 6 seconds it resets.
I have %70 block, and %30 dodge and then %63 evasion. That means for an enemy to hit me they need to bypass my dodge with %70 chance (1-%30), then bypass my block with %30 chance (1-%70) then bypass my evasion by %37 chance (1-%63)
The way that is calculated is (1-%30)*(1-%70)*(1-%63) which is %7.7 (just like I wrote in main post). There is nothing wrong with this calculation. IF an enemy gets lucky enough to get that %7.7, the safety mechanics for evasion should come in to make sure I will dodge remaining %63 of the attacks I will receive in these 6 seconds. That means when I am facing a single melee enemy 1 on 1, if it hits me, then I should be safe for at least 2 attacks in these 6 seconds (even without block and dodge).
OR I got it all wrong. By the way if you dont have anything to say about the evasion mechanics with numbers and the formula, dont comment with just opinions. I am trying to understand the formula here.
What does this have to do with my post, and even better did you even read my post?
Of course you can not evade spells, I specifically said "I died many times in melee 1 on 1".
evasion not viable
get armour
The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG
