PVP Theory Craft - Long/Detailed

So instead of linking a build (Due to the upcoming 9.11 patch) I wanted to theory craft with fellow Templars for upcoming PvP. I really want feedback on this and I am hoping someone disagrees with me so I can reformulate this.


First lets address the 3 options and see where it goes.

3 Defensive options: Energy Shield, Armor, Dex. As a Templar Dex is not a "natural" pathway and it seems to me that Pure armor based character(even with resistances) doesnt hold up AS well as a character that can utilize BOTH armor and ES. ES protects against many things that armor cannot and armor helps against physical damage when ES is gone. It seems that the traditional rock/paper/scissors game is in play, however, an ES user AND armor user gets almost the "trump" card in using both say rock and paper... Plus I would rather be good versus ANY matchup then GREAT in certain match ups and horrible at others.. I want a well rounded/hard to kill if played right character.

In using both ES and armor, it seems to me the Templar's main weakness is Chaos damage (if using energy shield), Thus, Chaos inoculation is ideal. So I would then spec over into the Int side of the tree for that.

Since I dont wanna be spread too thin, with an int based character, it seems spell damage (lightning strike or Glacial Hammer) are two good options for a Templar in PvP. It seems like there are more +lightning nodes then there are +cold damage nodes (This is where feedback would be great). So lets keep that in mind moving forward. We could use spells, but that takes us too far away from the armor side of the tree.

Since we are using a hybrid melee/spell damage option, it seems like we need to 1) stand toe to toe with Marauders and 2) be able to HIT Dex based characters. To combat BOTH options it seems like Troll's Blood(Hp regen) and Resolute Technique will aid in both of those situations. Combine that with armor mastery(armor AND run speed) This gives a character that is great in melee combat with health regen/armor/run speed AND great against spell damage (ES+Chaos Inoculation).

So now we have a good base, what else can we improve? Elemental resistances would be ideal as it is the next biggest weakness area for this player, picking up Things like "Celestial Walker" and other elemental resist greatly help survivability.

Now that we have addresses virtually every damage type and class, we move to the offensive.

We acknowledged elemental based melee attacks are great for this build, so we spec into things like Elemental Equalibrium and other +elemental damage nodes. I see alot of +lightning damage so that is one option or glacial strike for the slow would be amazing too.

the last thing to address would be 1) Catching ranged characters, this could be done via phase run, bear trap, or something else?

And mana regen. With any left over, easy to access nodes, we can get mana regen with different nodes.

OVERALL:
- Player excels in taking ALL types of damage.
- Player has good resistances/ES recovery/armor/health regen
- Player deals BOTH physical AND elemental damage (good versus all players)
- Player never misses (amazing versus Dex based players)

It seems like this is a great overall/balanced PVP player that could be good in almost any situation against almost any player.

Can you guys think of reasons this wouldnt be good or any other weaknesses?

First of all, I find it disappointing that most threads here are for PvErs. Hopefully we can have more PvP-oriented discussions here.

Back to topic, your theory built of templar: You want everything and be good at and against everything, you WILL fail at everything. Sorry. e.g. CI on a melee built? CI with hybrid armor instead of pure int equipments?

Here is a previous post about my idea of templar PvP (but be warned I had patch 9.10 in mind):
agility templar for cut-throat



One handed mace (glacial hammer) + shield (still undecided between pure str or str/int shield)

Why the above built?

Cut-throat = must hit accurately (resolute node reduces your chill/freeze/stun chances), hit fast and a built not too reliant on specific rare equipment... because you WILL lose them).

Inner force = I intend to use eva, ES, mana regen auras.

melee = must move fast (shield charge), good defence (this built should have decent armor, eva, ES, block, life).

supporting skills = enduring cry, molten shell for defence, basic minions for decoys, cold aura and ele weakness for more dps

FUTURE enhancement to this built: Crystal skin? Totem master? Hybrid shield ES nodes? Armor master? Golem blood?



Any comments or tips on my built for PvP?

You dont think somthing LIKE this would work?

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAQUBAJbF5wDU5OYEjqecBaqbVQd3v20KqDEdDibkRRIhjyMTuZa7Fl5YaReHlYcYum2EG85OTSKgHsIkWJ8tK3I55C2W5Ssv1U9iMBrrWTGTSfc9jDD1PoiM5T-eX01DGIu3RCAJoEgzp5xJEHjFSUc4nE1moOVa1W1XXa1vr2JHuPJlEXK1Z5gOAWfuCepu2O3-cbe533L2CH93ABYJd88CWXhNAbp447NXfIbKGXz20Jp_qsge_oviruVj0FSb8CrFmS1ht5WEki6rZVXSgMkz1aoFOlbzX-1W2ZuoEu527s_kTbpKhcp3reqO6piNF2Jj-eF4r4SYJvPUfDGL92Y7SbX8uW_klJJQsxw4pqfnDabJEsQh3YG579JUN_SF5VfcgqopxOBLbLbDq0kfnMVEzb0hu1bNymZj5K_cDpsdSUCbb0JKwOZYb80SrI6qa652-1rtDqI3qHbTP_B7y9UXz9E0Pde7ikAZ

I get that it is 90 point used so you will have to be like lvl 80 to get it, but I dont see why we shouldnt plan for lvl 80 pvp..

This gets you CI, a TON of +lightning and elemental damage, I didnt spec into the block/resists yet, but that could be the next 10 levels... It might not be super high DPS but it seems like it would play decent in many situations since its more of a defensive build. I dont have a ton of end game experience so you would know more then I....

At work so I cant post about your build so ill do that later.

It also capitalizes on extra energy shield bonuses and SOME elemental resists, I think I got all the major nodes possible. I think this build would do decent DPS with good survivability as well, the dodge isnt great but its more of a "take a ton of dmg" build...

I get a jack of all trades isnt as good as a king in one, but I guess im wondering how big of a difference this would be since I wont be AS focused on 1v1 pvp but group pvp type things so wouldnt it be a little better to be viable in any situation instead of "oh this is my characters big weakness, im useless here"

The first thing i notice: why taking ANY health nodes with chaos inoculation (CI)!? Read its description - you max life become 1 so all health nodes are wasted (and of course life regen as well)...

And using hibrid equipment with CI is IMHO a rather bad idea especially when going melee - you don't get enough ES from it to get around the disadvantage that your life is 1.

OK lets say you drop CI and you stay with the hybrid armor (btw the damage reduction from the armor reduces the damage to the ES as well) IMHO you should take Body and soul (it would also be a good choise for a ES only or Armor only build). Otehr inteeresting nodes near your path are Bloodless (near the Relolute technique), since you would screw all build which build upon life leech; and Divine thoughness (assuming you go hibrid equipment and would like to keep thos ES nodes near CI you can get it with only 3 points)

A weird idea i just had: what about taking Hex Master and Whisperer of Doom - Elemental weakness and Temporal chains (though you might need some dex to use it) = reduced ele resistances and reduced speed so you have an easier time catching for example ranged characers and your buffed lightning damage is even more effective

(another :P) EDIT: While further thinking about PvP builds - Resolute technique is certainly great since it gives you a great advantage over enemys who have evasion/dodge (though you have to take the drawback, that you have slighly 'weaker' ele damage, since you can't cause the ele alignments (frozen, burning and shocked - they require a critical hit), so maybe building upon physical damage might be recommanded when taking RT), and as i said Bloodless would be great as well IMHO, to gain advantage over life leech builds...
In terms of active skills Puncture and Viper strike could be devastating (Viper strike against armored apponents and ES users without CI, Puncture against CI users) - also getting some knockback on hit (through some active or passive skill) could synergise very nicely with puncture...
Other very usefull skills might be Tempest shield and molten shell, sice they punish melee orientated opponents.
In terms of equipment a must have would be one/some flasks "of heat" and "of dousing" - to dispell burning and frozen/chill

Just my 2 cents on PvP characters (sorry for the rather long post, especially after the last edit)

WOW im a total noob.. I did not read CI reduced life to 1... Doesnt seem like a great tradeoff to me. I like the life regen approach plus I feel that in PVP being able to run away and recharge ES is pretty BOSS given that your life with life regen will keep going up while they tick away your ES, only downside is chaos dmg which could suck...

Maybe going more block +resist oriented and stacking more physical damage?

Bloodless is a great idea, and I really thing RT is a necessity versus high Dex builds, the ele resistance and reduced speed are almost a must... I like that too...

I dont quite get what you mean here " since you can't cause the ele alignments (frozen, burning and shocked - they require a critical hit"

My understanding is that lightning strike or glacial hammer is all about ele damage and being able to 100% hit enemies ir pretty powerful, given glacial hammer.

I know lightning strike is awesome PVE but glacial hammer seems to be the pvp way to go...

I know it converts some of its physical damage so I could build that further too.

I really want to take advantage of the hybrid armor and ES tho so I think having nodes that give buffs to that are good, also the block/recovery nodes too.

Here is a remake of the build in 9.11 with 88 points used... Could use more +dmg stuff but its a pretty solid defensive build with decent dmg?

<http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAQUBAJbF5wDU5OYBAnFgAZZaJgHOOIsEjqecBlcPbAdrlNUHjBMsCMtVKgqoMR0LLzboEE72UhEQ4Z4SIY8jFSHhBBZeWGkakfLaHRGvtCJCe5cqQy8RMBrrWTGTSfc3xCN_OtyqFT0qSHVFHY20RxHwiksGJWtLrz-XV67gx1s8BoxdC8EpZRFytWca7AJoDWGZcp9W1HhNAbp8wCHef6rIHv6L4q7_FRw37_TlLZOHH36qBTpWgMkz1fNHdxirZVXS62ALjdhmqSWGc4sPjFFRo8AAvzbZm6gSuPV_7bEoYKOZLWG381_tVuSv3A6h5oQ18N1IdJtvQkqiN6h2u4pAGdM_8HvL1RfP0TQ919SLxKvA5lhvioV0PZD-fL36zqWamiRPWdWMg_TfAxXUg4Yb2pptiUfklJJQ8G7nL7Tqh1v3y3AZ26HH6dS5wCDNEqyOqC96ifQ0JfTO9_Xvrelxrg==>

I meant that you can't cause the elemental status effects (sorry i was a bit tired when i wrote that ;)) - because you need to get a critical hit on the enemy to for example freeze him (the 'status effect' of cold damage).

Especially glacial hammer which has the neat side effect that you can 1-shot frozen enemys when they are 1/3 or less of their life.

Another chance to get around the high dexterity builds is going more dex orinetated yourself (though i IMHO that doesn't really fit the Templar...) or another possiblity is Shield Charge (first it is great to get to or away from the enemy and second - it never misses :)).

But TBH i was working on a Templar PvP build today with the new skill tree and i also went for RT:
Link
-RT for obvious reasons ;)
-Bloodless of course
-Possiblity to cast 2 curses on enemy -> Temporal chains and Elemental weakness maybe together (you screw fast attack build and casters/rangers will ahve a hard time satying on distance while boosting elemental damages)
-somewhat boosted physical and good wepon elemental damage (especially fire)
-some block
-2 additional endurance charge
-life
-elemental resistances

And here is a variation of the above build:
Link 2
-Droppig RT but taking about 100 more dexterity and some accuracy
-Getting those sword nodes -> they reduce the enemy block chance (and since you need dexterity for swords and they increase accuracy i decided to drop RT)

The second build has lass advantages over the high dex enemys, but still shouldn't miss to much; while getting more physical damage and the block chance reduction! (though i dropped 2 health nodes as well to complete the sword circle - for even more accuracy) - and i almost forgot the second build can score critical hits.

EDIT: after thinking a bit more about those 2 builds i have to say i like the 2nd more :) As i said that disadvantage against high evasion builds can also be battled with Shield charge.
And because of the stats the 2nd build can use almost evry skill ingame (and with using swords options like viper strike and puncture come into my mind - imagine this: using a Corsair sword (fastest sword if the item page is correct, while still having a high max damage - it is balanced with rather low min damage) getting 2 or 3 viper strike stacks on the enemy; causing him to bleed; and while he takes all that damage over time hammering him with infernal blow (to take advantage of the hight ele damage on weapons) - and of course the enemy is suffering from 2 curses which will never expire).

Ya I have to say the second one is more appealing, the only thing I question here is suvivability and damage output. It seems alot of +elemental damage nodes are missing but I like the curse idea... You can also get elemental equalibrium with 2 points. I didnt see you pick up the health regen nodes which would be huge...

It looks like you could easily play this with a marauder as well..

Im starting to wonder if maybe doing something like this as a marauder and getting more of the life regen nodes would be better...

I wish more people focused on PVP more... What class are you planning on playing?

After looking through the build #2, What do you think about this?

Passive skill tree build

Im missing a few areas, but you can easily build off into those other stat areas with a few other points to balance it more, but it looks like a good possibility..

Here would be a high 90s skill point build

Passive skill tree build

And then here could be the max build
Passive skill tree build

pvp specialists will crush, your build is too well-rounded.

I was playing last night and realized glacial hammer requires a mace or staff. So I think Id have to retool this build to mace specialization... Also, I was thinking about adding some crit chance in there, it seems like burst damage will be better suited to take advantage of the % chance to kill when chilled...

I Think you mentioned the chilled effect is on crit? I read the skill last night and it just said on hit.. so It seems like speccing crit chance for the burst to get them down below 1/3 hp before they can run/potion back to full, takes advantage of the shatter effect, this could be especially good on non ES users.. Plus with high armor and health regen, seems like the chill shatter is realyl gonna be what does the job, not just my damage over time.

This build is supposed to be a pvp specialist, are you saying pvp specialist in 1 area will destroy this build? I am trying to make a "jack of a trades" for PVP thats decent against most classes in most situations. Most of my planned PVP will not be 1v1 so it seems like being a "tanky" character partnered with my ranger friend and maybe others, I wont be the one getting FF, so I can spit out some decent damage, that coupled with the fact I am getting a tone of +resistance nodes, armor nodes AND HP regen nodes... I dont see how I could get "crushed" in PVP...

EDIT: So I made this build focused on the mace/glacial hammer with increased physical and elemental damage. The star would be put 2 curse abilities on a second weapon set, open with those and switch over to my mace+shield. Curses never expire so it would allow me to have some HP regen totem and maybe phase run for mobility and +more damage with glacial hammer. I picked up accuracy nodes, as well as some block chance nodes... Seems like this would play really well in PVP versus almost any class, the weakness obviously is chaos damage but with freeze effects, elemental resist, HP regen, I think this could be good.

Passive skill tree build

EDIT: I count +49% resist all elements and one of my sheild nodes adds block to spells which is decent against casters. I also count 2.5% health regen per second and +16% additional block chance.

No just freeze is on crit, chilled is on every hit ;) Cold damage is the only of the eemental ones which does have an additionla effect (chill) without critical hit (but as i said no freeze without them) :)

Yeah no glacial hammer with swords, but i loved the reduced enemy block chance from those sword nodes ;)