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wrathmar wrote:
Can someone post the patch notes for the loot system change? I haven’t had a chance to play the last few days and it is not listed on the announcements.
Because nothing has changed =p
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Posted byGinfress#2225on Mar 8, 2013, 2:38:33 PM
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Kalriostraz wrote:
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Devilnaut wrote:
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mibuwolf wrote:
To further back up my point a bit:
Dark Souls and Demon Souls were seen as games that had a very select audience in mind. In Dark Souls 2 there are plans to add difficulty selection. It's a hot issue because it will no longer be the vision that Dark Souls used to be, but then again the difficulty is STILL THERE. I believe it is a smart decision to include a wider audience for 2 reasons:
1. wider audience brings more players for further support/development for future products/services
2. wider audience brings more players so that multiplayer has a chance of lasting longer.
I disagree with this. DS and DkS are two of my very favourite games. IMO what would happen with a lower difficulty is that many players would opt to take the path of least resistance and ultimately have a much less rewarding experience for it. The first time they died to a difficult boss some people would switch over to easy, steamroll the game, and then forget about it.
I like DS precisely because it didn't allow me to control everything and push it around.
So you would too? Sorry, but this is why I have trouble understanding the Pro-FFA/No-options side. Just because the game can be easier, how does that detract from your experience? I play almost all my games on the hardest setting now, even if I wait for the second playthrough (story, learning game mechanics etc the first time). Doesn't mean I'm not tempted, but I ultimately know I'll have enjoyed the game more if I beat it at it's most punishing. DMC springs to mind where this is true (the old ones, can't speak to the new).
In case you missed it my question is thus: How/Why does having different loot options detract from your experience? What I keep getting is: Because then I and everyone else will only play the "easier" way. Because we have no self control.
The way I see it is those who enjoy FFA will continue to play that way. I see almost no reason why they/you would stop unless there is inherently something wrong with FFA. Sure it'll be the most ruthless/cutthroat people playing, but isn't that the point? Isn't that what you want? To be constantly competing to the best of your ability for the best drops? Unless your thrill comes from grabbing things from people who aren't paying attention and will cry when you do. Of course, then your just a griefer and I could give a damn what you think. Just my two cents.
Personally I think the looting in POE needs work. I don't like the FFA set-up. I just don't think that Demons Souls and Dark Souls difficulty options is the right example to use, because to me this is one clear case where the option WOULD cheapen the game.
Personally I think that FFA loot itself kind of cheapens POE a little bit, I really can't see it giving players a deeper experience the way that challenging difficulty in Dark Souls does.
I do however see the point in developers putting their own vision for a game *before* the whims of the player base. I'm sure that James Joyce could've made his novels easier to read, but he didn't because though that would've pleased a number of people in the short term, in the end it is just not the way he meant for them to be presented.
Last edited by Devilnaut#7302 on Mar 8, 2013, 2:40:34 PM
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Posted byDevilnaut#7302on Mar 8, 2013, 2:39:31 PM
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Kalriostraz wrote:
I'm not misunderstanding his point. He's ignoring mine, as are you now. Yeah, people will go and play instanced loot (if that ever even becomes an option) but to say that everyone will is where I disagree with you both. If everyone always played the easiest way, then why do games have difficulty sliders to begin with?
In a competitive environment where people who choose 'easier' difficulties will get ahead quicker than people who choose more 'difficult' ones, I very much doubt you'll see many people intentionally making their life more difficult.
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Posted byDevilnaut#7302on Mar 8, 2013, 2:44:30 PM
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aaronsan wrote:
Fine not EVERYONE. He was using exaggeration for effect, and you are taking it literally in order to nitpick.
I see no need to complicate things in the way you suggest but I trust in GGG.
-Aaron
Exaggerating for effect?
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Vooodu wrote:
...no one would play it...
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Vooodu wrote:
...Why would i want to play public FFA games and fight over loot if i could just have my own simple drops...
Seems his point rests on that "exaggeration". Again, unless I'm missing something here. This is why I ask (which I still see no one answer) Why do you enjoy FFA? Why do you want to see it be the only option? Everything I've seen leads me to believe the answer is: "Because I enjoy being able to grief other players." Am I wrong? If so, give me the correct answer.
Even Vooodu admits he doesn't look for loot in public games. I don't see why you should be forced to farm solo, or play in a private party to progress in the game. Because let's be honest. You need loot to progress.
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Posted byKalriostraz#4755on Mar 8, 2013, 2:45:24 PM
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Kalriostraz wrote:
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aaronsan wrote:
Fine not EVERYONE. He was using exaggeration for effect, and you are taking it literally in order to nitpick.
I see no need to complicate things in the way you suggest but I trust in GGG.
-Aaron
Exaggerating for effect?
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Vooodu wrote:
...no one would play it...
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Vooodu wrote:
...Why would i want to play public FFA games and fight over loot if i could just have my own simple drops...
Seems his point rests on that "exaggeration". Again, unless I'm missing something here. This is why I ask (which I still see no one answer) Why do you enjoy FFA? Why do you want to see it be the only option? Everything I've seen leads me to believe the answer is: "Because I enjoy being able to grief other players." Am I wrong? If so, give me the correct answer.
Even Vooodu admits he doesn't look for loot in public games. I don't see why you should be forced to farm solo, or play in a private party to progress in the game. Because let's be honest. You need loot to progress.
If you want to play pubs then you should be forced to make friends. Noone is spoon feeding you loot, the group fought together to kill the mobs, so it should be a FFA on drops outside of the timer you already have in place.
Current system is fine.
Instanced loot is just not needed. If you have a problem getting loot then make friends, how hard is it?
Or you could play solo, boom no loot problems.
so you have options, stop trying to change a core game mechanic.
Invasion - No Sacrifice No Glory
HTTP://WWW.TWITCH.TV/THISISDEUX
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Posted byDeux#3310on Mar 8, 2013, 2:47:45 PM
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I'm reposting this from another thread:
GGG might be able to help solve the loot issue by introducing more social avenues in the game, such as a proper whisper system, better chat functionality in general, guilds, etc. If people were better able to make and play with friends then the loot issue might just take care of itself.
Ideally there would be consequences to acting in ways that other people don't appreciate, whether they be in terms of hard game mechanics (like the ability to kill a guy who is loot whoring everything) or facilitated socially (guild systems, better community, the ability to tell who looted what in a game, etc).
As it stands, everyone is rather anonymous and connecting with others just gets in the way of the loot clickfest.
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Posted byDevilnaut#7302on Mar 8, 2013, 2:49:09 PM
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Kalriostraz wrote:
Fine. Then why do you enjoy FFA? You say there's no problem with it. But you also go on to say no one will play it if there are other options. If you actually enjoy FFA, why would you "flock" to the other options? IMO: Because you don't actually enjoy competing for loot. You enjoy griefing and trolling others. My opinion on those (like you) who keep insisting everyone will flock to the other options if introduced. If I'm wrong, then how about explaining how/why?
I enjoy FFA because I do. Its what i loved about D2 and I also loved about other ARPG with the same loot system. And it fits perfectly in POE, it would work even better if they got rid of the mental mind melting loot timer once and for all. I love the 'ooOh Shit' feelin i get when i see a drop i want and get it.. And that 'ShIiiit" fellin i get when i miss out.
Its got nothing to do with trolling or griefing. Its all about common sense.
Im not about to play publc games with FFA loot if i can just get the cow and milk for free right next door. There needs to be a HUGE FFA bonus if they start splitting the players up based on loot options. Which i hope never, ever happens.
I hope what ever they choose, they do it right. But, if they take it to far this game will be dull.
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Posted byVooodu#7002on Mar 8, 2013, 2:49:34 PM
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Devilnaut wrote:
I do however see the point in developers putting their own vision for a game *before* the whims of the player base.
Which I (and others have stated they are too) am fine with. But they need to come out and say it. As it is the current looting system gives mixed signals, and with them still "deliberating" the loot system sits in limbo, with no clear lean in one direction or the other.
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Posted byKalriostraz#4755on Mar 8, 2013, 2:50:39 PM
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If we get a system of instanced loot and FFA-loot the FFA-loot should always be of a higher quality then the guaranteed instanced loot. Want an easy game, sure but you will never get the loot that the FFA-system provides. The easier something is to obtain the lower the quality of the reward should be.
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Posted byGinfress#2225on Mar 8, 2013, 2:51:57 PM
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Kalriostraz wrote:
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Devilnaut wrote:
I do however see the point in developers putting their own vision for a game *before* the whims of the player base.
Which I (and others have stated they are too) am fine with. But they need to come out and say it. As it is the current looting system gives mixed signals, and with them still "deliberating" the loot system sits in limbo, with no clear lean in one direction or the other.
Agree 100% here. I also think that if they are aiming for a cutthroat feel, there are better ways to do it, and there need to be some consequences and less anonymity.
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Posted byDevilnaut#7302on Mar 8, 2013, 2:52:22 PM
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