Path of Exile 2: Content Update Timeline

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

That's honestly a terrible idea for the game's health. League mechanics need proper testing with fresh economies - throwing half-baked content into Standard where people have mirror-tier gear and legacy items would be a complete disaster.

This is a non-sequitur. Allowing the content to exist in both Standard and the F R E S H does nothing to hinder testing. If anything, it provides more data to gauge content, not less.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

The whole point of leagues is to test new systems without breaking the permanent economy.

Nothing is going to 'break' by allowing the tests to run in each realm-type concurrently.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

Standard players aren't being excluded

This is gas-lighting.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

they're being protected from buggy league mechanics that haven't been properly balanced yet.

We don't need your 'protection'. In fact, it would be more fun to test it with my current characters. Those that want to reset everything they've done can do so in the new league.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

If you want to experience new content immediately, play the league. That's literally what it's for.

Nah. Implement them in both at the same time.

More data doesn't automatically mean better data when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback.
And calling it "gas-lighting" is a bit dramatic, don't you think? It's just basic game design - you test in controlled environments first. Standard isn't some neglected stepchild, it's the stable version where your progress is safe from the inevitable league mechanic nerfs and reworks.
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear, nothing's stopping you from copying a character over when the league goes core. But asking for simultaneous implementation is basically asking GGG to balance around two completely different player power levels at once.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

More data doesn't automatically mean better data when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions.

You're operating under the flawed assumption that data it only useful when applicable for a new realm and, in doing so, have made my argument for me: Standard's data is for Standard. Which data will be more useful for Standard?

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

And calling it "gas-lighting" is a bit dramatic, don't you think?

No. Your attempt to downplay this only damages your credibility.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

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Leagues are a fresh economy for you to experience the new content update in, but they also have exclusive content that is only available in the league.

Stop making content league-exclusive. There is no reason to not implement it together in Standard. You can still adjust it however you see fit at the 'end' of the league. I don't care about a new economy. Let all players experience the new stuff at the same time, regardless of realm.

No, making league-exclusive content is a good way to get people to play in a fresh economy. Standard is just the dumping ground for old leagues and has always been that way, at least for a majority of people.

It's not like you are missing out on balance changes etc, just the league content.

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Kvicksilver#0051 wrote:

No, making league-exclusive content is a good way to get people to play in a fresh economy.

Now wait a minute. The F R E S H economy is supposed to be the true allure, is it not? Unless all of those claims made by league proponnets have been lying this entire time. Those who want to start over can. Those who don't, won't. Your argument for league-exclusive content now is that you're attempting to pull players into doing something that they normally don't find atttractive (starting over). Which is it?

There is zero harm in implementing all content updates concurrently. It provides more data for both realm-types and doesn't treat Standard like second-class citizens.

Noice mate

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

More data doesn't automatically mean better data when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback.
And calling it "gas-lighting" is a bit dramatic, don't you think? It's just basic game design - you test in controlled environments first. Standard isn't some neglected stepchild, it's the stable version where your progress is safe from the inevitable league mechanic nerfs and reworks.
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear, nothing's stopping you from copying a character over when the league goes core. But asking for simultaneous implementation is basically asking GGG to balance around two completely different player power levels at once.

You're gas-ligthing. I have some points where you're completely wrong:
1. Not all the players on Standart have thousands of divines.
2. A bunch of players even don't know what is trade and will not use it for years, some of them players SSF. So, for those players fresh economy means nothing
3. Some of players just don't want to start fresh league because it's literally annoying to complete acts each time with no level items

So, taking away the new content for players who plays only standard is bad idea because it means that standard league will not see new conent for how much, six months?
As other guy said - players don't want your "protection", they want to play new content as other players do

Taking new content away from Standard players is bad for who?

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Kvicksilver#0051 wrote:

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

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Leagues are a fresh economy for you to experience the new content update in, but they also have exclusive content that is only available in the league.

Stop making content league-exclusive. There is no reason to not implement it together in Standard. You can still adjust it however you see fit at the 'end' of the league. I don't care about a new economy. Let all players experience the new stuff at the same time, regardless of realm.

No, making league-exclusive content is a good way to get people to play in a fresh economy. Standard is just the dumping ground for old leagues and has always been that way, at least for a majority of people.

It's not like you are missing out on balance changes etc, just the league content.

Wipe and new league itself is a good way to refresh economy.
But, I personally haven't any problems if Standard players will get new content as I do and I don't see anything wrong with it.
I'll play fresh economy on league, you'll play fresh economy on league, but let's say some other guy who have some troubles with game could enjoy the content on Standard with no need to level his character again. No cons, enjoy and fun for everyone

If he will not get new content as I do - there is a possibility that he's not see it on Standart after league's end like it was with Sentinel or Scourge, or Synthesis, or Affliction (some of them were reworked but it's not the same league content as it was)

every new content should be in Standard league till 1.0 launch as a base game.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

You're operating under the flawed assumption that data it only useful when applicable for a new realm and, in doing so, have made my argument for me: Standard's data is for Standard. Which data will be more useful for Standard?

You're missing the point entirely. I'm not saying data needs to be "applicable for a new realm" - I'm saying polluted data from a broken economy isn't useful for anyone. Standard's data being "for Standard" is meaningless when that data is corrupted by exploits and dupes that won't exist in a fresh league.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

No. Your attempt to downplay this only damages your credibility.

Right, because disagreeing with your word choice is what damages credibility here, not throwing around terms like "gas-lighting" in a video game balance discussion. Very reasonable take.

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ForsesGIT#6499 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

More data doesn't automatically mean better data when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback.
And calling it "gas-lighting" is a bit dramatic, don't you think? It's just basic game design - you test in controlled environments first. Standard isn't some neglected stepchild, it's the stable version where your progress is safe from the inevitable league mechanic nerfs and reworks.
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear, nothing's stopping you from copying a character over when the league goes core. But asking for simultaneous implementation is basically asking GGG to balance around two completely different player power levels at once.

You're gas-ligthing. I have some points where you're completely wrong:
1. Not all the players on Standart have thousands of divines.
2. A bunch of players even don't know what is trade and will not use it for years, some of them players SSF. So, for those players fresh economy means nothing
3. Some of players just don't want to start fresh league because it's literally annoying to complete acts each time with no level items

So, taking away the new content for players who plays only standard is bad idea because it means that standard league will not see new conent for how much, six months?
As other guy said - players don't want your "protection", they want to play new content as other players do

Taking new content away from Standard players is bad for who?

The issue isn't about protecting Standard players - it's about getting useful feedback. When you have players with legacy gear that's 10x more powerful than anything available in league mixed with new players who barely know what an orb of fusing does, the data becomes meaningless noise. How do you balance a mechanic when half your testers are steamrolling content and the other half are getting one-shot?
And yeah, doing the campaign again sucks. We all know it. But that's a separate problem that needs fixing, not a reason to muddy the testing waters for new mechanics.
Six months without new content isn't ideal, but it's better than getting half-baked implementations that either trivialize the game for geared players or brick it for everyone else. Look what happened with Sanctum when it went core - completely different beast than the league version because the power levels were incompatible.
Standard gets the polished version. That's not punishment, that's quality control.