Every Single Archetype Character Fantasy in this game and how it should be. CHECK THIS.
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This is what everyone would expect from their character in this game.
Correct me if I´m wrong. I will explain in game terms what Every single class should be. MARAUDER / WARIOR Them should b all about doing sustainable damage and being capable of sustain themselves in combat by daamge reduction/regen. Strong points: Armour/resistances/life regen/block/damage reduction mecanics. Pretty good against any CC. Strong close combat CC but on Cooldown. Weakness: No burst damage/need of high invest in survavility to perform and avoid what would b 1 shoots in other characters. Also some obstrician level gameplay bassed in potions during campaign wich will b the way to know if ur gear is enough to fight certain boss. RANGERS/AMAZON: Should b abble to avoid most of the damage by evasion and when them get hit, rely on a big E shield pool or a damage reduction/life aproach depending if them go for assasins or duelist side of the tree. Strong points: Squishy. Hard to hit. Them also are capable to keep distance by fast movement/dash or slowing down enemies or trapping them. When them have high evasión getting 2 consecutive hits should b hard and this should be their 1st layer of defense. Sustain damage, gameplay bassed in position but with capability of some burst when needed or when some circunstances are met. Specially good with potions since their base regen is low and leech is limited. Weakness: Being surrounded is normally hard for them so chose the targets wisely taking out the small ones 1st should b a must for them. Them suffer a lot when them get many hits in a row where evasion suffer, or when a CC affect them. Also AOE might b a problem for them unless u invest in ways to avoid that kind of damage. MAGE/WITCH: should b a time contdown fight between dps and energy shield pool/mana. Being disengage, tons of CC and burst their main tool. Strenghts: CC. Their capability to freeze enemys, slow them, absorb some damage for limited duration, should be their main tool. Also a high burst single damage. Capability of repositión but not as movile as a ranger due to cooldowns. Also their planification and target management should b part of their gameplay. Mages should b ok vs elemental CC or curse CC but not vs melee physical stuns. Weakness: Balance. It should b hard to balance your burst dps with ur cc with your defenses and mana management. When u are op it should b a child game for you. and when u are below a huge problem. So balance should b specially on point with this class. Melee stuns. For nigro gameplay, it should be the same since ur minion is ur layer of defense and offense. So their survavility and yours are the same thing. and their dps and yours is also the same. And all classes in between this 3 pure archetypes: SHADOW/MONK:.. an insane burst damage with evasion e shield, being DPS their thing and disengage/engage their main tool. Add some CC & e shiedl pool if u go to the sorceres side (monk) or add more traps and tricks if u go for the evasion ranger side. Stenghts: High DPS burst, critical, venoms, traps, engage/disengage mecanics, go invisible, being untargeteable for short durations, play with shadows, roge style gameplay. Or elemental CC control with high burst of damage and some invunerability for short duration. Culling strike. Their hability to delete enemies should b their 1st layer of defense. Weakness: Sustain. Almost no sustain since them have no access to leech and energy shield is not the best option for close combat. Melee CC can b very dangerous for them. Survavility should be their main Issue. DUELIST/MERCENARY: A sustain dps character with leech. He can avoid, block, parry, counterattack and have damage reduction in the melee version. Being the timming of their skills the intended gameplay in the close combat version (Marauder side) For the range versión, sustain Dps also with some traps but not as many as ranger. More squishy. Rely on companions and some mechines to slow enemys. Also have access to some strong physical CC in cooldown. Strenghts: Skill rewarding. Hability to do some high crit damage if u parry the right time etc... Pretty decent consistent damage with some peak and some cc. Pretty balanced. Machines he display can be quite interesting and give u a lot of versatility in the way u aproach any encounter. Weakness: His damage reduction is not enough for big bosses hits so he rely a lot in their blocks and parry vs them. Bad hands = bad duelist. However his evasion+ reduction + leech should b good enough to sustain against small enemies most of the time. Hard to get leech for the ranged one who might have some other tricks in that regard + potions. TEMPLAR/DRUID: The damage reduction beast. He gets elemental defenses from witch and phis defenses from marauder. Sustain low DPS with some elemental timmed bursts. Strenghts: Damage reduction with life/E shield character that can use CC, block, auras, trnsformations... High regeneration big pools of life/E Shield. Close combat damage with elemental stuff and CC from elemental sources and close combat physical habilities. This should b the most defensive character and also the perfect support for any party. Weakness: Low damage output. The damage gets to some decent sustainable DPS only for short durations while some auras are active, some transformations or some requeriments are met. The rest of the time, he rely in his survavility and his capability of taking large amounts of damage. Thats my take of what classes should be. Tell me whats ur take. Last bumped on May 7, 2025, 3:58:04 AM
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you just described the classes as they already are?
though obviously that's if you build purely in their corner of the passive tree. |
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" What I described is how them should work bassed on gameplay skills and ascendancy mostly in my opinion. And no, them are not like that at all right now. Just think about the class u are playing and tell me if is anything similar to what I´ve described... Im mostly thinking in POE 1, WOW and some other fantasy games to give them those qualities, cos right now, them are far far away from those archetypes in POE 2. Last edited by Sarke#5416 on May 5, 2025, 10:40:39 PM
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Disagree.
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" While I understand the point "sadly" I need to highlight its not a class you play in POE you play a skillgem and use an ascendancy to boost it. :D I was thinking about the following changes that would match your vision: Damage output and income should be reduced (also enemy hp, we don't want pinnacle bosses last for 6 hour gaming marathons) Regeneration massively reduced and split. More defensive and CC abilities needed to react to hazards. And how about: Energy shield should only block spell damage Block should reduce incoming damage Evasion should be recoup Currenlty the problem is that ES is the damage spongue. Block and evasion can nullify incoming damage and with so much regeneration endgame "challenge" is about anything MUST oneshot the players, otherwise the game is boring, because anything that doesn't kill you, you recover to full hp in a second. Block-armour synergy should be about: a) you either build full armor to facetank the damage so much you can afford 2handed-dual wield playstyle b) you use shield to reduce incoming damage where your armour handle the rest Evasion is tricker because how do you balance it out when someone has 75% of it? And I was thinking it could be should be similar to bloodborne rally mechanic. In POE2 that could be done by evasion = recoup. You don't NOPE out the damage, you just have 4 seconds to get back. And resistances needs to be health with. IMHO only the templar should be able to have all resistance capped. Wonder what the guardian will be, because currently Kitava has what Templar should be. And btw... its broken as hell. And I don't think there's much "meaningful combat" in raising PASSIVE stats to a level where you can just ignore the problem. Well... at least its an option, because in 0.1 the game was about having so much damage you disintegrated any source of problem. :D The best defense is a good offense approach. |
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Answering this...
" Disagre 100%. No, E shield is a magical barrier not something to use only vs spells. The point and difference between life and E shield is that when u working with E shield is all about your pool, sinceu need to stop taking damage for E shield to restart and little E shield regen it makes u take care of how much damage u take per combat since u have a limit that will eventually get depleted. The point in E shield is that u can afford short time combats. Being engage/disengage, CC or fast clearing ur tools to manage this. Life instead have a lot of regeneration and leech so is much easier to sustain in long sustained combats with defenses on point. Thats why life should suit better for melee characters who wanna b fighting and dealing sustainable damage and energy shield works bettter with squishy targets with burst capacity, or a lot of CC that can interrupt the damage taken. " Not really. I mean thats actually what it does, but not by % reduced damage while blocking. It could work like that and it actually does in some games, but I prefear by far having a limited amount of how much u can block giving ur character time to regen ur life while u blocking, when u need it. Also u shouldnt b blocking everything so lets say max should b around 75% and with a limited amount of blocks bassed on ur stun or resistances capacity... (u shouldnt b abble to block if u are frozen or shocked or burning I guess) " Yes. In evasion recoup should work pretty good. U shouldnt have many life regen avivable and also shouldnt have much e shield pool so probably recoup and potions should be your sustainability resource in combination with avoiding hits with evasion itself. U can also add some damage reduction from armour with limited amount of leech (only melee) o very limited regen, or some E shield pool without access to faster E shield recharge rate, that will b replenishing since u are avoiding many hits as long as u can calculate well the ammount of damage ur character is abble to resist. Last edited by Sarke#5416 on May 6, 2025, 9:46:27 AM
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" Almost. Templars should b the only ones who can reach 90% resistances by increasing max cap. Everyone should b abble to reach 75%. " Easy, u dont give them much acces to life regen or faster e shield recharge and force them to work around that, making them think better about positioning and how many enemies them can pull each time. Also forcing them into pin mecanics, parry or dashes to avoid taking much damage in a row. Also u give them leech as a way to sustain for melee squishy characters. But only for melee. Last edited by Sarke#5416 on May 6, 2025, 9:47:57 AM
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Im not triying to re invent the wheel here.
Most of those concepts were already stablished in POE 1. Just some of them lost their meaning at some point in the game due to some broken unique items like Aegis Aurora or Atziri Accuity gloves... that were way 2 OP cause them were breaking those weakness some archtypes had. Last edited by Sarke#5416 on May 6, 2025, 9:54:15 AM
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" Its true until you start picking up the skills/nodes that starts the recharge faster, life converted to ES, Leech applies to ES instead of life, etc... In its current form ES have a much higher value than life because you cant even stack up so much life. Seemingly the concept is that you either get armour so your hp worths more or ES so you can become a damage spongue. But armour only mitigates physical damage while ES everything. But a recall to traditional fantasy archetypes mages usually don't really involved in physical combat since with firewall/iceblast they don't really let enemies get near to them. "meaningful" combat would be to blast archers first (since they use physical projectiles) or use windwall type spell that reduces danger of projectiles. So all left is soak up magic damage. But its just an idea. Not sure how ES doing endgame, but I well aware, and experience first hand that armour in its current form is so trash, that endgame players often replace it to ES or Evasion once they hit block cap. Which comes to this point: " Its a bad mechanic that you can get 75% chance to absolutely ignore incoming damage. Theres a key node on the archer side [Glancing Hits] Increase block chance by 30% but you get 10% of the damage. Something like this should be the baseline thematic and the block infinitely should be the skill node. Shield should have block chance and mitigation value. (reduce damage by x% or flat value) Giving critical block chance? Because think about the other way: How can you kill a player who have all res capped have 75% block chance But as warbringer you can even become someone who just block ANYTHING! I have turtle charm and now I have like 64% block. and so much regeneration that anything that bypasses that will be recovered instantly? The "only" option is oneshot mechanics, and there's 75% that the player will just block unlimited damage. Or the other option is the current "stunlock that bastard" So my experience is my health just suddenly disappears. Yeah... on one side its not fun to be disintegrated. Especially by physical damage that I am supposed to counter. But on the other hand I don't think there's much skill involved that I just can manage to pile up so much stat I can ignore the map. If you play SSF getting gear is a nightmare. If you trade, then I must ask, whats the point of forcing players to have 85lvl of "tutorial" when you design the game to just buy out the problem? I thought they want POE2 a skill based arpg. But seems the only skills needed is trading and RNG manipulation and learn statistical chance Nevermind... the issue is completely nulling the damage just because you have a shield. And because of this armour itself is absolutely useless. In 0.1 I got oneshotted even though I had 14k armour in combat. So that 25% chance that bypassed my shield killed me anyway. If I struggle so much with shield I don't even dare to start a dual wielding berserker. So arguably armour should be made stronger? Or shield weaker? How does poe2 math even work? Ideally I would like to see a dual wielder berserker with rage build who keeps himself alive by soaking in the blood of the enemies. But playing without shield its not viable at this stage. And we go to the point where enemy damage is balanced against shield bearers who can block infinite damage. Thats why it would be better to have % chance to reduce incoming physical damage and let your armour handle the rest, and no-shield build would either have leech dependency or some other self-heal mechanics on cooldown. Or maybe shields should have negative effect of reducing self heal? Because we want to avoid that armour+shield as the only option. I am lvl84, have shield turtle charm with 64% block chance, 2.4k hp, 78% resistances and 30% chaos res with 20% leech. And I pop out! So how am I expected to stay alive without a shield? Ah yeah... just use your superior damage and oneshot the screen. You don't have to worry about mitigation if there's nothing to mitigate in the first place...XD Or roll RNG / check the market because early endgame you could have 4 useful mods, now you need EVERY mod on items to be useful. " I wondered with evasion = recoup because in game theory perspective how do you balance out a class that can have a chance to just avoid infinite damage? " I was thinking about a double buff: evasion chance and recoup efficiency? Theres a few option. Either evasion is strickly recoup. So you have evasion chance to recoup the damage? Or you need recoup stats still but evasion would increase the damage amount you recoup? Lets get to the extreme min-max again. How would you balance a character with 75% evasion (not sure if it can be raised to 90% but tooltip says that's the hard cap) So 75% of the time you get rally? Aka you need to damage enemies to get health back? Or you do a hit n run style? As soon you see you got hit you just walk out for 4 seconds until your damage is recovered? Or when you have 75% evasion that would increase the recoup stats by 75% too? Last edited by Kraivan#1745 on May 6, 2025, 11:21:10 AM
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