CRAFTING SHOULD NOT BE RNG, OTHERWISE IT'S NOT CRAFTING

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Twelten#1961 wrote:

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

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TheRedVex#3529 wrote:

Sure bro.

Let's implement all these changes on the next version, so we can all run characters with perfect gear after 10 days once 0.3 launches.........

That's what would literally actually happen if GGG listened to most posts on this forum.

Part of being a good dev is to know which feedback to listen to, and which one to ignore.

PoE2 has lots of problems, but deterministic crafting is very low on the list.

Sure, bro. Let’s just keep slamming Chaos Orbs and Divine like it’s 2014 because clearly, progress through RNG alone is the pinnacle of game design, right?

No one here is asking for "perfect gear in 10 days" or a crafting system that completely removes effort and challenge. What we’re asking for is progression that feels rewarding and crafting that doesn’t feel like throwing your resources into a black hole. Deterministic crafting doesn’t mean “easy,” it means “meaningful.”

And calling deterministic crafting "low on the list" of problems when it’s literally the system we use to interact with loot, the foundation of any ARPG, feels like you’re downplaying one of the most crucial aspects of the game. You can’t have a loot-focused game without a good way to engage with that loot, unless you want the entire player base to treat it like a glorified slot machine. But hey, maybe that’s the vision? "Path of Exile: Gacha Edition." Sounds fun.

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Ferdelizer#3373 wrote:

I just started playing LE again after season 2 dropped and I'd forgotten the simple joy of being able to select an empty mod slot and pick what I want for it.

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Borderlands 1 2 and 3
Grim Dawn
Diablo 2(and its remake)
Torchlight 1 and 2
Destiny 2
Warframe
The Division

iirc none of these games have any real crafting in them because they are looting games not crafting games.

Sure, you can complain that loot is terrible, but crafting is not the solution.

The solution is for enemies to drop better loot.

Tbh I don't understand what you want. Campaign is too hard for you?

- If you use the systems and sockets and vendors you won't have many problems in the campaign, unless your build sucks horribly or you play like a potato.

- Same for the low tier maps. You might run into a few walls, but this is a farming/trading game. You're supposed to bump into walls and farm loot in order to progress.

- High end mapping and pinacle bosses are meant to be played when you have really decent loot. Crafting won't help here since the good and best items ALWAYS have to come from farming and/or trading.

So I don't understand why you want deterministic crafting because, in order to actually be relevant, it would have to be better than trading and farming.

It seems like you want to remove the "unlucky" factor that comes with looting games when you only find junk and have to be patient and farm a bit to get a good upgrade.

Well, that's part of the package. A price you have to pay to have those cool moments when to do get lucky and find something awesome.

I don't think crafting can exist to this extent without trivializing a good portion of the game.

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masskillers#5403 wrote:

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Ferdelizer#3373 wrote:

I just started playing LE again after season 2 dropped and I'd forgotten the simple joy of being able to select an empty mod slot and pick what I want for it.

Hmm this boss hits hard with cold.

Check forge for cold resist shard.

Bang it on a piece of gear.

Wow actual crafting

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

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Twelten#1961 wrote:

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Borderlands 1 2 and 3
Grim Dawn
Diablo 2(and its remake)
Torchlight 1 and 2
Destiny 2
Warframe
The Division

iirc none of these games have any real crafting in them because they are looting games not crafting games.

Sure, you can complain that loot is terrible, but crafting is not the solution.

The solution is for enemies to drop better loot.

Tbh I don't understand what you want. Campaign is too hard for you?

- If you use the systems and sockets and vendors you won't have many problems in the campaign, unless your build sucks horribly or you play like a potato.

- Same for the low tier maps. You might run into a few walls, but this is a farming/trading game. You're supposed to bump into walls and farm loot in order to progress.

- High end mapping and pinacle bosses are meant to be played when you have really decent loot. Crafting won't help here since the good and best items ALWAYS have to come from farming and/or trading.

So I don't understand why you want deterministic crafting because, in order to actually be relevant, it would have to be better than trading and farming.

It seems like you want to remove the "unlucky" factor that comes with looting games when you only find junk and have to be patient and farm a bit to get a good upgrade.

Well, that's part of the package. A price you have to pay to have those cool moments when to do get lucky and find something awesome.

I don't think crafting can exist to this extent without trivializing a good portion of the game.

Yeah bro, funny you bring up Destiny 2, Warframe, and The Division, got over 2000 hours +++ maybe 3000hrs in each of those. Kinda wild how you're using them to argue against better crafting systems, when those games actually have way more deterministic progression than PoE ever has. Gear targeting, crafting materials, vendor systems, loadout optimization, like, have you played them?

Anyway, not gonna keep spinning in circles here. If you think “farming forever and praying to RNGesus” is sacred design, that’s on you. I’ve said my piece.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

Hmm... weird... you know, in "Diablo 2" you can take a "base item" and some "currency" and determine what item will be the "crafting result".

And that crafting has no place in ARPGs, especially PoE, is some wild nonsense.
Crafting is what made PoE what it is. You still have the ARPG "randomness" because even with more deterministic crafting methods, you have a mod tier range or multiple mods sharing the same tag (keyword).
It's not like you just gather 3 wood and 2 iron, and you just get your "Wet Noodle Sword" after clicking "craft".
You still have to know the crafting methods, apply them in the most efficient order and so on...