Why do you keep hating on minions???

I dont get why minions got nerfed and i dont see why they have to feel this bad, yes they were decent killing bosses but a lot of other builds did a far better job with less investment and while keeping an omegafast clearspeed that minions just dont have.

Right now u are about to do the exact same mistake that u did in poe 1 where u nerfed the gem scaling which not only meant that their damage was nerfed heavily, but also their hp was severely diminished as a result. To be honest this is not only a decrease in their dps but it is essentially a multiplicative nerf and more like a quadruple nerf to their overall performance + a nerf to the summoners survival at the same time. What you dont seem to understand is that if u cut their dps in half u also in a way increase/double the amount of damage they take from monsters given the fact that your minions spend twice the time killing the mobs, now add the fact that u also cut their hp by the same amount and u really dont need 200 IQ to see where this is going

There is a reason why almost every minion build in poe 1 these days is either SRS or Holy Relic cause u pretty much made everything else unplayable or meh at best, and now u are about to deal with ur so called "overperforming" minions the exact same way in poe 2. When i look at some of the other builds out there i really dont see the "overperforming" part of minion builds, in fact almost any other decent build will outperform minions in both clearspeed and bossing.

The fact is minions should be able to survive almost anything in endgame when u have high lvl gems and decent gear, a summoner with no minions is essentially a dead fish in the water. When all ur minions are gone u loose ur defences and dps at the same time which doesnt happen to any other builds.

On top of all these nerfs u decided that summoners dont get access to convocation in poe 2 so u had an option to actually pull them out of harms way and deal with the huge issues with bad AI and minions getting stuck in doorways and narrow corridors+ the miss target issues that some minions have at certain ranges and elevation differences

What u dont seem to understand is some people are dedicated to this playstyle and not everyone want to play lightning spear javazon/deadeye clearing multiple screens in one shot, the least u could do is make it fun and a viable option which is far from the case atm. As it is now its tedious, underperforming, slow and a complete nightmare to level or play high tier maps with.

Anyway that's my two cents on this patch. Looking forward to seeing some improvements to these issues at some point but untill then i think im done with this patch for now at least

That's exactly how I feel. Even reduced spirit now too. I've almost completely stop playing. Guess Jonathan wanted to force people to play Hunter but i just want to play minions. I've played over 700 hours in 0.1 and have 3 different minion build, level 96, 94, 85. I won't play Hunter, period.

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Germany27250#8163 wrote:

That's exactly how I feel. Even reduced spirit now too. I've almost completely stop playing. Guess Jonathan wanted to force people to play Hunter but i just want to play minions. I've played over 700 hours in 0.1 and have 3 different minion build, level 96, 94, 85. I won't play Hunter, period.

It almost feels like they dont want people playing summoners, unfortunately this is what some people like and they get punished by not following the intended meta. It just doesnt work like that, you cant force people to play builds they dont like by nerfing their prefered builds they will just find another game that suits their preferences.
They did exactly the same in poe 1. Nerfed both damage and hp/survival which is essentally multiplicative stats when it comes to minions surviving, on top of this u need to spend a lot more skill points on minion defences to compensate making this type of nerf more like a 6-8x nerf.

My question is, If they are so concerned with their single target dps (obviously it cant be the clearspeed cause its not that great), Why dont they just give bosses a 50% less damage taken from summons multiplier instead??? not that i think its needed at all when i look at some of the other builds out there

What T maps are you running?
How are your minion res's (ele, chao, phys) and +life%?
Have you stacked min respawn?

Im L89 Lich running a storm/frost zoo and things seem OK in T15s w3-4 mods, or max mods if there are no crap mods. Min defences jacked as high as I can

IMO bigger issue are certain boss attacks that effectively ignore your minions, there's a lot of invisible damaging surfaces that can gank ya in a second or so or stunlocks like the fungus druid's ranged attack where he ignores your minions and always shoots directly at you even if you cant see him on the screen.

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EdwardReynolds#6959 wrote:

What T maps are you running?
How are your minion res's (ele, chao, phys) and +life%?
Have you stacked min respawn?

Im L89 Lich running a storm/frost zoo and things seem OK in T15s w3-4 mods, or max mods if there are no crap mods. Min defences jacked as high as I can

IMO bigger issue are certain boss attacks that effectively ignore your minions, there's a lot of invisible damaging surfaces that can gank ya in a second or so or stunlocks like the fungus druid's ranged attack where he ignores your minions and always shoots directly at you even if you cant see him on the screen.

I have kind of put my summoner to rest for now but yeah i had all the defensive nodes and the revive nodes but they still die a lot and they are no where near any top tier build thats for sure, i switched to a warrior with sunder totems and its just miles better on all aspects. It was a bit of a struggle til i hit lvl 52 and got my ancestral warrior totem and ooh my god it was sooo much easier to lvl, no more getting stuck in doorways and no more issues with minion survivability, i was crusing through the rest of the campaign without even being close to dying on ssf gear and a couple of items bought at vendor. As far as i can tell my minions had about 5-6 times less dps than patch 0.1 and a lot squishier too, and to be honest they were not even meta or top tier in 0.1 and their clearspeed was nothing compared to a majority of the good builds in 0.1 and now they are even worse. If anything they had decent single target dps but so did many other builds while having far superior clearspeed and no AI issues with dps being stuck in a doorway.

But my sunder totem warbringer just cruised through the map tiers with ease, and did all my ascendancies first try in trial of chaos except the first one which was trial of suck'emas

My only assumption is developers hate minion builds ongoing because they don't play them but they see the usage and they saw usage back before Archnemesis when like 18% of players were running Necromancer in POE1.

And that, again I assume, is just an enduring... hatred, or assumption that because they don't play minion builds and they see people playing them and doing well, they need to nerf minion builds so they don't EVER overperform.

Which is funny because again, minion builds already feel weaker in POE2 than they basically ever have been in POE1, and you have to do SO MUCH NOW, to make a minion build work.

Like in POE1, you could almost just get away with just raising your minion skills every level, and you'd be okay straight to maps, but now...

In POE2, it's like you have to scale your build in every possible direction INCLUDING having STRONG items like a really good sceptre, or else your entire build cannot even complete the campaign, which is unbelievable.

If they hate minions that much they should just remove them from the game and stop pretending they even want to let us Summoners play the game. It'd be less painful. Just rip the bandaid off instead of nerfing Summoner 6 feet under...

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Majorita#4109 wrote:

My only assumption is developers hate minion builds ongoing because they don't play them but they see the usage and they saw usage back before Archnemesis when like 18% of players were running Necromancer in POE1.

And that, again I assume, is just an enduring... hatred, or assumption that because they don't play minion builds and they see people playing them and doing well, they need to nerf minion builds so they don't EVER overperform.

Which is funny because again, minion builds already feel weaker in POE2 than they basically ever have been in POE1, and you have to do SO MUCH NOW, to make a minion build work.

Like in POE1, you could almost just get away with just raising your minion skills every level, and you'd be okay straight to maps, but now...

In POE2, it's like you have to scale your build in every possible direction INCLUDING having STRONG items like a really good sceptre, or else your entire build cannot even complete the campaign, which is unbelievable.

If they hate minions that much they should just remove them from the game and stop pretending they even want to let us Summoners play the game. It'd be less painful. Just rip the bandaid off instead of nerfing Summoner 6 feet under...

Yup they use player numbers to decide if a build needs a nerf, without considering the fact that it just might be because many people like the playstyle

In poe 1 they pretty much gutted every single minion skill, and if u want to lvl as a summoner these days u probably have to use SRS and later maybe holy relic when u get the alt gems needed, and now they are doing the exact same thing in poe 2 by nerfing both minion dps and hp at the same time

It's just so tiresome, it's like okay, fine, I get that they're probably going to look at the numbers then adjust upwards, they need a 'baseline' to work up from, but that doesn't do much for us players for the next like 4-5 months or whatever, who now just get to sit here playing miserable builds that make us feel bad.

I'm waiting until 0.3 to see if GGG learn their lesson. We don't want "meaningful combat" when it comes to mobs on maps.

I'm fine with meaningful boss combat. But that's it. If their vision is anything else, I'll just stay away and keep giving my feedback. But the player numbers are horrendous and support my opinion.

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Majorita#4109 wrote:

It's just so tiresome, it's like okay, fine, I get that they're probably going to look at the numbers then adjust upwards, they need a 'baseline' to work up from, but that doesn't do much for us players for the next like 4-5 months or whatever, who now just get to sit here playing miserable builds that make us feel bad.

Yeah well they havent really addressed the issue in poe 1 yet and what was it, patch 3.19 or so they completely gutted minions? i cant remember exactly but based on this i wont expect things to be a lot different in poe 2. They just hate minions