Difficulty and pacing are not the problem

The class system is.

Let's say that the difficulty and pacing stay the same as indented

Imagine you start a new league and have a vague idea of what you want to try
-You try different skills and combinations and you find something that is fun for you.
-You hit an early wall in the campaign and you go back to farm gear, crafting currency
-You have access to targeted crafting (like crafting bench) and better nodes in the skill tree to build up your defenses and damage
-You overcome the difficulty and you feel gratified
-You reach a point in end game (maybe mid maps) and you see that your build has a ceiling, as not all skills and combinations can ever be equally strong
-You have farmed currency and you can theorycraft again, start a new char, or follow a build that came out and looks strong

What actually happens:
-You start a new league and have a vague idea of what you want to try
-You hit an early wall in the campaign
-You are missing the tools to make your build better, or the skill/combinations you chose, are weak by design
-You have to follow a different playstyle that works and most people are playing
-You are not having fun and the campaign feels like a chore
-You either quit the league or be patient and after you hit end game and farm, maybe you can now theorycraft something that feels fun for you

When PoE 2 EA launched, I was excited. All this weapons, ascendancies, skills, QoL improvements, no more linking gear, slow and meaningful combat, manual dodge and block etc. I tried an ED Chonk and had to avoid all boss mechanics 10 times in each fight. When I leveled with an ice strike monk, I didnt see any boss tactics. The answer to that is not just a nerf of strong builds. The answer is to rethink the whole class system because with all that possible combinations, it feels like the theorycrafting potential are closer to D4 than PoE 1 or LE.

What could be done differently?

-More meaningful skill tree
-Targeted crafting, at least early on with a low ceiling so its not OP for end game.

But most importantly:
-Skill crafting and conversions

Right now the way skills work, is too one-dimensional, locking you to a specific playstyle. Instead of skills being so specific by design, players should be able to adjust them to a personal playstyle and open up more viable combinations, attack/cast hybrids etc. For example, I can convert ice strike to fire, focus on fire damage and pick smith of kitava for the fire spell proc. LE is a good example on that aspect (although it has other disadvantages).

If the class/gear/skill system stays as it is, then the only way forward I see, is for the game to abandon the current pacing, go towards a PoE 1 design and simply give a lot of quantity so the playerbase has a 10% of viable builds that play each league.

Skills need a full overhaul they need to remove weapon restrictions and just group them by type. So you would have melee, ranged, magic and that would let you mix any classes skills with any weapon you want to use letting you really mix up how you build and play.

Crafting needs to be fully scraped and they just need to start over.

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ZandrXIX#7379 wrote:

Skills need a full overhaul they need to remove weapon restrictions and just group them by type. So you would have melee, ranged, magic and that would let you mix any classes skills with any weapon you want to use letting you really mix up how you build and play.

Crafting needs to be fully scraped and they just need to start over.

I would go middle ground. No need to make all skills work on all melee weaposn for example. But some skills could work with 2, others with 3 and only some specific ones with 1. Obviously You cannot use spear throw with a Bow. But rake should be usable with a sword as well with spear.... etc..

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Urza_Mechwalker#7393 wrote:

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ZandrXIX#7379 wrote:

Skills need a full overhaul they need to remove weapon restrictions and just group them by type. So you would have melee, ranged, magic and that would let you mix any classes skills with any weapon you want to use letting you really mix up how you build and play.

Crafting needs to be fully scraped and they just need to start over.

I would go middle ground. No need to make all skills work on all melee weaposn for example. But some skills could work with 2, others with 3 and only some specific ones with 1. Obviously You cannot use spear throw with a Bow. But rake should be usable with a sword as well with spear.... etc..

Y'know I thought the skills being tied to a specific a weapon was such a weird design choice from the jump. Like you said it makes sense for some skills to be tied to certain weapons. For as much as a dumber version of this game Diablo 4 is I think they got it right with barbarians in that game. If anything skills should be tied to a weapon class ie: blunt, slash, or pierce. That at least leaves room for skills to be tied to a weapon theme but isn't as restrictive as "this can only be used with maces". It would make sense for slam moves to be used with blunt or stab skills to be used with pierce but would also allow for some moves to be used with all weapon types. It would greatly improve the chances of finding more exciting loot as well. Having to disregard any weapons except the one mace of a specific base-type is kinda boring. I 100% agree with you.

I'm not in end-game but the game seems to be balanced around TRADE even during the campaign.

Going back to the table and rebalancing & redesigning the campaign with the following restrictions in mind would help perceptions a LOT:

1. SSF + HC (No trade .. monster speed, density, damage geared for HC)
2. No MF (I.E. just base drops)
3. No need to refarm areas ... just play the campaign


For the endgame I'd be fine if T1 to T15 maps are MILES apart thus giving us reasons to farm maps, to specialize, hopefully find niches, etc. so we can participate economically.

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OldLongDick#0874 wrote:

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Urza_Mechwalker#7393 wrote:

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ZandrXIX#7379 wrote:

Skills need a full overhaul they need to remove weapon restrictions and just group them by type. So you would have melee, ranged, magic and that would let you mix any classes skills with any weapon you want to use letting you really mix up how you build and play.

Crafting needs to be fully scraped and they just need to start over.

I would go middle ground. No need to make all skills work on all melee weaposn for example. But some skills could work with 2, others with 3 and only some specific ones with 1. Obviously You cannot use spear throw with a Bow. But rake should be usable with a sword as well with spear.... etc..

Y'know I thought the skills being tied to a specific a weapon was such a weird design choice from the jump. Like you said it makes sense for some skills to be tied to certain weapons. For as much as a dumber version of this game Diablo 4 is I think they got it right with barbarians in that game. If anything skills should be tied to a weapon class ie: blunt, slash, or pierce. That at least leaves room for skills to be tied to a weapon theme but isn't as restrictive as "this can only be used with maces". It would make sense for slam moves to be used with blunt or stab skills to be used with pierce but would also allow for some moves to be used with all weapon types. It would greatly improve the chances of finding more exciting loot as well. Having to disregard any weapons except the one mace of a specific base-type is kinda boring. I 100% agree with you.

There is also the possibility to follow PoE 1 in terms of skill quantity and to end up with just so many skills with not-fun mechanics, just to have something new every league. That would be a big mistake for me and I believe that a type of skill crafting would do wonders and open up the whole class system to interesting combinations. If ED has a fun playstyle, allow the players to convert to desired ailment and lets say that if a gladiator would be centered around bleed, he could be a caster with a bleed ED.

PoE 2 needs to take real advantage of the ability to play any skill-weapon with any ascendancy, something that neither Diablo or LE have and make us crazy about theorycrafting again. If that happens, all other problems will look smaller.