Dear GGG: Thank you for 0.2 (DotH patch notes) - looks good - LOGIN Apr 4 ;)

I know this post is a bit diff feedback and is more positive than negative, so a bit of a change...but just how I'm feeling for now.

Why? I feel GGG has actually changed a bit more compared to the past in that they seem to be listening more to the overall community sentiments in what the masses want (of course, there are folks who do not like this 0.2 patch notes, but again, still too early to judge, and as well all know, you cannot please every one in a video game - it's impossible [also certain forums, like EA Forums have "biases", of course]). One thing's for sure. Their goals are shown a bit more clearly in terms of their "vision" for PoE2 actually (just took several months in EA..)...in that they want the future of PoE2 to Grow and they want to increase their overall playerbase and numbers (including season/league to season/league), by changing the formula of PoE1, i.e. zoom zoom 1-shot to a bit more slower pace and methodical combat like in Campaign (not as much like "Souls-like", but in a similar sense, in a way) And now efforts in end-game (it seems like it, at least). Which is a great goal to try to achieve that PoE1 has unfortunately missed out on. And in by doing so, I believe their numbers can Grow and exceed PoE1 and actually be more sustainable longer-term.

I don't want to jump-the-gun here of course like I said earlier re. "too early to judge" but just feels this way for now (as per the new interviews and patch notes, some YouTube, etc). And again, Balance is not easy, and never said it was, but again, Balance has to be done - even at the expense of a "$hitstorm". Furthermore, the above changes, should also have a side "bonus", i.e. build diversity. I do feel now that there will be more builds viable, and fewer "cookie cutter" stuff. Again, this is a step in the right direction. I believe the build diversity in PoE1 (I didn't play PoE1 that much, but I still got to maps for 2 classes back then) was (is?) superior to PoE2, that indeed it still has an upper hand on. However, PoE2 is slowly creeping up from 0.2 I believe - in this criterion. I also feel that these nerfs kinda "indirectly"/passively is a "loot buff", in a way -- as build diversity increases, you will have more options of course, and with more options to explore, there may be fewer chances or odds needed for more loot, as there may be more builds that are viable with the current loot/drop rates/system -- so this also is a neat and potentially effective/efficient way of dealing with some of the previous issues before 0.2 ("loot buffs", etc) -- which can also lead to a bit more "life" for SSF folks (yay? [again, this favors SSF a bit more over Trade, which, again, seems to be what GGG are trying to do more, or the overall direction, at least]).

GGG is trying to play a longer-term game here, and usually that will have to introduce some additional hits/cons ("$hitstorm") in the earlier phases but in the longer run, it can/should pay off - it will take more time to see this though. Still very early to see (it is EA/early access after all), but will be able to give more "judgment" and feedback later once 0.2 hits. But again, overall, I feel this is a step in the right direction.

One example why is that it seems like they have their own unique "strategy" of addressing the dreaded "zoom zoom 1-shot" (end-game) that many threads have talked about in the past few months ("rate 1-10 for end-game" threads, etc [note, it also seems they have improved the "1 death penalty and xp loss" thing too]). It's interesting way to do this, as it does introduce a "$hitstorm" (folks getting nerfed), but I still believe it's fine since it is EA, and that's the whole point. Why it's worth it: The overall Balance of the game was still too 1-sided to specific builds/classes and/or specific niche things about a class in order to make them viable late-game, and much of them also were attainable via Trading. This "alienated" a decent percentage of the playerbase (again, certain forums are "biased", including this EA Feedback Forum), and that percentage of playerbase was exactly the clients/customers GGG still wants to attain/sustain. Again, if this was not done, the "masochists" (this word can be a bit harsh yes to use as a "description", but it's about a "unique type of players who enjoy playing their own way..", that doesn't really cater to the masses [which, again, remember why GGG embarked on this PoE2 in the 1st place -- it was to broaden and grow the playerbase more, from PoE1]) playerbase would be the ones GGG would keep, just like in PoE1 -- and again that defeats the whole purpose. As per the recent interview/"Q & A"(s) from GGG w/ others (streamers, etc), I believe (though I didn't go through it all)/my interpretation of it was that they do not really want PoE2 to be Balanced around Trade - and rather, more for SSF (in a way) - or something along those lines - and that they do not intend the end-game bosses to be 1-shot (and zoom-zoom). So, again, by doing so, this can help that -- and again, a step in the right direction (in my opinion). Yes, you can argue that in 0.2, Fubgun and others will learn to break the game in other/different ways, but this is the way it'll be always anyways. By achieving 0.2, it still achieves a "baseline" of Balance -- one where it did not even exist in the original EA release (before 0.2). And this new "baseline" is an improved starting point in my opinion (again, still too early, but more "judgment" on that later once 0.2 hits). Once Fubgun/others break 0.2, another patch. You can say then - "what's the point of 0.2?" -- It's to lessen the blow -- future patches will not have to be as "vast". Again, should be a step in the right direction.

I don't want to speak for the community of course, but I just see a lot of posts not enjoying 0.2 patch notes, and for those folks, just try to read the above and see the potential positive side of things. Then maybe it won't seem so bad. Personally, I wouldn't say "give my money back/refund" or all those other threads/posts about "dead game" etc ("reviews on Steam will tank soon", "going to Last Epoch/Diablo 4", "3.26", etc) -- again, it's just too early to make judgment (this is 0.2, and there's actually still quite a bit of time left for gamedev until Full Release 1.0 [X'mas 2025, Q1 2026?]). (of course, there are various "bias" in certain forums/communities, and I do feel that at least in these EA Forums, it may be heavily biased towards folks who Trade lol, and play non-melee classes...lol - or do not favor SSF-type of game-play -- but regardless - it is what it is). Try out the 0.2 game (when released), and then see for yourself. The recent interviews of GGG/streamers - they express that 0.2 is like "a new game", and while perhaps that may be a bit of a stretch, I do see their sentiments from the patch notes, and really, you have to play to see for yourself -- there's just no way every one has some crystal ball/oracle and knows exactly the impact those 0.2 patch notes have done to the game/experience definitively (no matter how much you analyze it and, "Path of Building" it, predict every mob/boss/class interaction, etc -- simply impossible).

Like there are just so many details in the 0.2 patch notes. (I know this sounds weird, but I'm even considering trying Warrior again lol. Changes on HotG, Perfect Strike, Magma Barrier, etc etc etc --- so many changes. Personally, before 0.2, I struggled w/ all the gem/skills of Mace w/ Warrior, in terms of finding something I really enjoyed [that's "true" melee lol...yes quarterstaff/monk doesn't count lol] -- except 1 build really -- but then that 1 build required Trade, and I basically wanted to be SSF basically -- but now w/ 0.2...doors have opened more to revisit Warrior again and to see how it is. I also never Ascended my Warrior before 0.2, but now w/ the Kitava Ascendency [personally I'm favoring the offensive options over defensive nodes...but it makes sense why...more options than wearing a dress to save ~20 armor nodes seems nice for a change... -- and I'll try defensive nodes later too, for perhaps another build -- again, we all know the armor issue is still outstanding, but this change is still a step in the right direction, and perhaps later, an improved more "fundamental" change will be done to address it/armor], I think it's worth it finally to actually Ascend. Also, of course, I want to try Spear w/ Warrior [then I'll try Merc w/ Spear, then vanilla traditional Huntress]. Anyways...the point is, this looks like a good 0.2 patch, and lots more to explore. Yes, no Druid/Templar/Marauder, but again, this "foundational Balance" is needed.)

TLDR: 0.2 patch notes looks good -- I believe step in the right direction for sure (despite the $hitstorm [still a bit too early to judge -- no crystal ball/oracle for these early negative posts, as impossible to know before playing]) -- more "foundational Balance" needed (favors more SSF over Trade - in a way - which is needed for its future Growth compared to PoE1 -- feels like slower pace potential, more build diversity potential, etc) -- definitely worth it to LOGIN Apr 4 and explore more (or even just give it a chance/try out [for some folks]) -- And thank you GGG ;) (some more details above as to why..)

lol someone with no play time throwing up a giant "i support GGG" sign to get favor? I hate to remind ppl of this it was our money from poe 1 that made poe 2 if we didn't spend our money on a game we liked they never would have had the money to even think about making a poe 2 and yet they spit in our face with this game. so yea atm i hope the game fails. ggg has a bad issue with not learning from the past and forgetting we the gamers make their game run. and we can decide to make it fall.

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Savage_Tha_Clown#1530 wrote:

lol someone with no play time throwing up a giant "i support GGG" sign to get favor? I hate to remind ppl of this it was our money from poe 1 that made poe 2 if we didn't spend our money on a game we liked they never would have had the money to even think about making a poe 2 and yet they spit in our face with this game. so yea atm i hope the game fails. ggg has a bad issue with not learning from the past and forgetting we the gamers make their game run. and we can decide to make it fall.

Their biggest failure so far is to treat the game as if it is a full release. A very curious and unwise way of moving things forward because people would be more receptive of sweeping changes when project is still in Early access mode.

But Grinding Gear literally shot themselves in the eyes.

They throw away their biggest excuse - it is Early Access - to announced a league. It is as if the whole process is based on emotions rather than logic.

But players had caught on this early that is / was obtrusive obvious that they intended the game riddled with poor designs, which they somehow convinced themselves to be great.

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Savage_Tha_Clown#1530 wrote:

money to even think about making a poe 2 and yet they spit in our face with this game. so yea atm i hope the game fails. ggg has a bad issue with not learning from the past and forgetting we the gamers make their game run. and we can decide to make it fall.

I do share some similar sentiments w/ you there/here. You probably missed some of my past posts - albeit easy to get lost in this EA Feedback Forum.
In short, I had my qualms w/ how they treated melee (Warrior specifically [don't count monk lol]), in particular the interview they/GGG did a few months ago I think like early Jan. I emphasized this point about we're their customer and they should treat it as such (I didn't say "spit in face" like you but I recall saying something like "laugh at face" - or something along those lines). This point in particular of "melee < ranged" - and how it seems as though it was essentially the same issue back in PoE1 (aforementioned I didn't play it much back then [see above/previous posts]). Back then, they didn't seem to be listening to their customers. One point I'm making in this post is that it feels like they're actually changing in that regard. That's why when you're saying "i hope the game fails" - that part, I wouldn't go to that side, as it doesn't look like they're failing again - at least for now in terms of a "0.2 state". Though before 0.2, I had my bet things wouldn't change in a way...though that was without the new info (new interviews, YouTube, etc).

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DutchMilk#4689 wrote:

But players had caught on this early that is / was obtrusive obvious that they intended the game riddled with poor designs, which they somehow convinced themselves to be great.

You have a point here, but it's a vast change now for 0.2 and those "poor designs" are...well, looks to be improving...hopefully lol.

TLDR: going to be reviewing this and updating some stuff on it (more later..still early). -- I may perhaps need to update this Thread Title, as it's been not long yet it is...well...more "mixed"...lol

--
Some more 0.2 Release Thoughts (just post 0.2, with latest "Early Game Buff" Hotfix 0.2.0b/0.2.0 Hotfix 6):
-much of the content was just for before 0.2..will contrast..but 0.2 still early yes, but a Fascinating Release..1 for the history books lol..perhaps it is a reflection of our modern times [won't go that far I guess, but maybe BG3 was an exception...lol...anyway...]...
-can see arguments on Both Sides more [will be reviewing also streamers, YT, etc for some more perspectives]
-still quite "mixed" [like the Steam Store reviews...lol]..but in due time...more shall be revealed..!
-Though, note GGG is doing a "Early Game Buff" (see latest Hotfix for 0.2 ;)) -- time will tell for it...folks are now saying "don't cave GGG", etc lol...we'll see how it goes later ;) (will also see YouTube, streamers, etc) -- fascinating how this happened just after the 0.2 Nerf $hitstorm, but Buffs can still be good of course (again, still too early to see)
-Streamers/YT update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWE7TB2V5RE in this video there are ALL ARPG streamers talking about how bad this update is....Rax Wudi Zizeran and all others....
-while there are still folks advocating GGG to "keep the vision" and ignore and don't cave (can also still see this side as well...still -- regardless of the 0.2 Release..)
-some more details below from the 0.2 Release (and also older "0.1" details)

--
Though....some things potentially (defending some folks, in a way..)...:
-Spark dead, monk dead, minion/witch, infernalist/BM, etc (note, just anecdotal)
-jewel dead
-Spear early game (no support gems yet) Bad
-folks do not want to explore more builds Like diff skill/support gems, passive tree, gear, etc - and try to find another "Spark" ;)
-ascendency (Kitava) fairly substantial..and perhaps reasonable arguments (like "i swear if anyone gives me "dude this is early acces" BS..4 months.. to deliver a patch thats WORSE than the 0.1.0 beta LOL" )
-streamers do seem to have a consensus here too that it's still "ruthless"...lol..
-"Early Game Buff" Hotfix 0.2.0b/0.2.0 Hotfix 6 -- still too early, but was fascinating...just shortly after 0.2 release, buff, post-Nerfs ($hitstorm) -- can still backfire, unknown for now

Note, again, these "expenses" are part of the "vision". Not trolling.

0.2 feels like it's moving a step forward towards more "SSF-like" Balance, as opposed to Standard/Trade -- personally, that's a win to me (longer-term sustainability, growth, etc).

Builds haven't been figured out yet.
No YT vids on min/max "combos" (Spear/Huntress) etc.
Give it some more time.

--
"0.1" Thoughts (several months ago):
-I do believe there's still some validity here...I still remain a bit "balanced" in terms of potential failure/success...
-I made my bet post 0.1...then 0.2 patch notes shifted it to the other side...and now post 0.2.0b/0.2.0 Hotfix 6, shifting back a bit again..not sure...still need more time of course and still early until 1.0 Full Release (X'mas 2025/Q1 2026?)

To re-iterate (TLDR): post-interview, (personally) my current (until more data arrives from the community/YT/forums/Reddit/etc) bet will side on past history, i.e. "melee < ranged" and "zoom zoom 1-shot" -- so, no real changes from PoE1, essentially (with the main outlier of the campaign for the 1st ~60 lvls or so...lol --- and new melee classes like Druid/Templar/Marauder...lol [bye Warrior...lol {I don't count Monk...lol -- nor minion/Witch...lol}]) -- and timing-wise, I'll just say 2026+ (so, guessing 1 more year of gamedev until full Release post-this EA).

(Post this interview w/ the 2 GGG reps, I just decided to bite the bullet and re-rolled Monk [finally?] for SSF [felt the additional handicap of SSF would help Balance it out...lol. {Merc lvl ~64, Witch lvl 21, Warrior lvl 66 -- considering trying out the Quarterstaff for my Merc -- Re-spec Again...lol -- and yes, will still be on the lookout for future Druid/Templar/Marauder...lol}])

I remember reading long articles how giving mortgage loans to people who can't pay them back is a great idea, as long as we do it on a large scale. No amount of text can negate the fact that we the players do not (on average) enjoy the experience. The skill changes were a significant step in the wrong direction.

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xxn1927#3319 wrote:

I remember reading long articles how giving mortgage loans to people who can't pay them back is a great idea, as long as we do it on a large scale. No amount of text can negate the fact that we the players do not (on average) enjoy the experience. The skill changes were a significant step in the wrong direction.

Lol.

That's legit fair man.

Maybe the "TLDR"? Lol

Look at Steam Store reviews.

The Steam Store reviews are "tanking" a bit for the most recent ones...last I checked it says "mixed" for the "overview".

I do feel this 0.2 Release hurt GGG a bit, but I also feel it was needed...I'm still mixed on this lol..anyway

TLDR: Just some more details on the $hitstorm of 0.2 (aforementioned, see above..)
--

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Ariskay#0506 wrote:

And yeah, they knew within weeks which builds were broken back in December, so why wait until now to act, after players formed attachments to their characters? It just doesn’t feel respectful to the time people put in. No one’s against change, we just want it to be thoughtful and paced, not something that resets the table every few months.

Hm..seems like it's a matter of timing when GGG wanted the $hitstorm. They knew the $hitstorm would happen, but when? They decided to wait for when a new class is released to hopefully balance it out then. Another possible pro they thought was that they would allow players to continue "play testing", rather than just have the playercount plummet once they know balance patch arrives. Since it was early, they wanted to retain players for more feedback? And of course, the con is evident/obvious, i.e. the $hitstorm itself and how large of a hit they're willing to take there, in terms of their choice of release/update. (the Steam Store reviews do show a bit of a hit..)

You could argue both sides really. Perhaps, the most "balanced" approach would be to have a bit of time in the 0.1 for folks to play, but not like 3-4 months, and do more incremental changes in between. This may perhaps be the compromise to balance the pros/cons listed above (incremental would not retain playercount as much and in turn have lower quality feedback overall potentially -- though, the pro is that the $hitstorm would be less). However, then you could argue the management and way they execute wouldn't be able to do this, etc.

Either way, what's done is done, and they decided to go this route. Perhaps in the future they may have smaller incremental changes that are more frequent. Who knows really. There really isn't one "best" approach to this. Many scenarios have their pros/cons with no clear "winner".

Perhaps, in the end, you could argue it just boils down to the management lol. Let them take all the heat haha

Note in the future it seems like they're going to favor larger updates that have longer timelines and less so incremental frequent, so we'll just continue to see how that continues to play out.

TLDR: Just some more details/thoughts on the $hitstorm of 0.2 (aforementioned, see above..), and Future Patches/Hotfixes (0.2.0B, for example)
--
Just a simple "analogy" of the $hitstorm: Politics.

For Future Patches/Hotfixes (0.2.0B, for example): Need to give it some more time.

They (GGG) should be careful about these Buffs (I'm not saying it's bad [I just started 0.2.0B today]), and give it some time.

Note that the end/late-game (i.e. mapping) still needs "tuning" potentially too, as we don't want another PoE1 Clone, i.e. zoom-zoom-1-shot -- so, more (future) Buffs should also be carefully considered for future Hotfixes (like 0.2.0B [again, particularly, for end/late-game]).

(Re-iteration: TLDR: PoE1 Clone Has No Future. What does PoE1 Clone achieve? We have historical data and evidence what zoom-zoom-1-shot does to the game. Look at the SteamCharts data for PoE1 today. Does GGG want that player count for PoE2 too? Balance the game for SSF over Trade/Standard. [Ideally, Improve "melee < ranged"]. This -- and you have a long-term future-oriented game, with longevity, sustainability, and growth.)

TLDR: Just some more details/thoughts on the $hitstorm of 0.2 (aforementioned, see above..), and Future Patches/Hotfixes (0.2.0B, for example)
--
-Early Game Buff of 0.2.0B yes, however, it may be possible that Early Game (Huntress, potentially [from streamers, etc]) is still a bit "under-tuned" -- again, still too early to say.
-As mentioned above, folks do not want to explore more builds Like diff skill/support gems, passive tree, gear, etc - and try to find another "Spark" ;)
-However, this can also be tied towards their Early Game progression being "boring" or "masochistic" -- which, can be possible, in a way, due to "poor loot", "mobs too fast", etc
-As such, folks resort to optimizing Gear -- However, Gear optimization in Early Game SEEMS to be a struggle for newer players (no PoE1), particularly for casual folks who haven't played PoE1 -- they do not seek priority stats like MF/IIR nor do they do much Crafting (Recombinator, etc), Vendoring, etc.
-Moreover, MF/IIR has its issues (every one having it on their Gear) -- But the issue is also that folks who are new do not prioritize it at all, which further exacerbates the situation, in terms of the "poor loot" -- Furthermore, the latest patch 0.2 MF Nerf can be correlated in a way too.
-need more time to see (just started Huntress post 0.2.0B, so cannot say) -- new "What we're working on" Update via Twitter/EAForum -- review and update "vision" accordingly (more streamer YouTube reviews, etc - for additional "perspectives", etc) -- remember (GGG),
--
Quick thoughts of the above aforementioned new "What we're working on" Update via Twitter/EAForum:
This is COPY/PASTE from them (GGG):

"

Many people are reporting that gameplay is feeling too slow. Sometimes this comes in the form of people saying that monster life is too high, or player damage is too low, or areas are taking too long. In this post we will talk about some of the things we have already done, and more of the changes we are planning on making.

Trade-offs of course as we all know. I feel the pacing of this is "improved" perhaps, mainly in terms of more "communication" to the customer.
From 0.1, we didn't have much like that, so perhaps this approach of more "incremental" is what they're trying out -- who knows.
You can argue the earlier these changes make it in, the earlier the testing yes, but they (GGG) should remember the "Quality" of the changes. There's no point in making useless changes that they end up reverting back.
Look at 0.2.0B, for example. Not saying 0.2.0B is bad at all -- I'm saying they're nerfing the Buff as a possibility can backfire. But I mean, it's an example of a rather large change that's done fairly quickly. And not much time to see the "impact" yet.
So again, just about the trade-offs, whether they're willing and Confident enough w/ the changes. In the end, they have to make their Deadlines. So, of course, it's up to them, but "Quality over Quantity" is not necessarily bad, at the expense of course -- time (i.e. Deadlines lol).
--
(TLDR: For the above "PoE1 Clone Has No Future." (some justification [along SteamCharts data, etc])

"

Trade for people who just want to gear up burn the game and move on.
SSF for those who enjoy the loot hunt and craft.
Hardcore for those who like to nail their foreskin to the wall.

)