Nerfing armour break for melee mace, heralds still untouched

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

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BIGMP#3106 wrote:

Unfortunately, I see this happening.. a lot in the coming patches due to their short sighted-ness, unprepared, and naivety.

This is Early Access and we see only half the game. I think players are being naive in thinking they already have the whole picture. Which we know isn't true when one of the complaints is lack of skills available.

Same song and dance. Expect players to filter the trash for their lack of foresight and testing.

I wouldn't be so against the ideals if they spent any time actually experimenting in their own game. They have all the tooling and can do any idea they want instantly and don't.

The crazy OP builds? If you had any item combination you likely could do this yourself if you are aware of how these games work? Why are these issues even present? It's amateur hour.

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BIGMP#3106 wrote:

The crazy OP builds? If you had any item combination you likely could do this yourself if you are aware of how these games work? Why are these issues even present? It's amateur hour.

IF being aware of how these games work, include knowing op builds exist, wouldn't that make it the standard and not amateur hour? It seems you should take your vast knowledge that puts experienced devs into an amateur class and start immediately developing your own game. Something so perfect and easy to do should instantly make you rich.

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

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BIGMP#3106 wrote:

The crazy OP builds? If you had any item combination you likely could do this yourself if you are aware of how these games work? Why are these issues even present? It's amateur hour.

IF being aware of how these games work, include knowing op builds exist, wouldn't that make it the standard and not amateur hour? It seems you should take your vast knowledge that puts experienced devs into an amateur class and start immediately developing your own game. Something so perfect and easy to do should instantly make you rich.

Troll response. They have the dev environment to test these variables after coming to a conclusion.

Have a good one!

tbh armour explosion should still work and chain on warbringer because anvil's weight ascendacy node says break armour 10% of hit damage ( not physical damage like Splinter support gem says )
So makes no sense why they killed it atleast for them

Acting like they can't test their shit/its too hard is pretty disingenuous, I don't think anyone is expecting it to be perfect as it really is difficult to get balance down without iterative playtesting from a large group.

Some of the errors right now however are so large they were clearly never tested in any way, infact I suspect they weren't even extrapolated when their values were chosen they still have placeholder values.

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BIGMP#3106 wrote:

Troll response. They have the dev environment to test these variables after coming to a conclusion.

Have a good one!

It's Early Access. This is the time to find those issues. This isn't a big giant company like Blizzard. Early Access is needed to sort through things like balance, when you have thousands of times more people testing than a few dozen at most, and that's taking them from doing their work. It's not a troll response, it's just not the sugar coated approach you'd prefer.

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BedlessSleeper#0856 wrote:

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raV#3445 wrote:

Arent both these things esssentially using the same interaction by chaining off of itself?

Why did armour break get "fixed" as a christmas present for melee while herald abuse is still unchanged?
thats crazy

was really hoping that this will get fixed with this patch, every single build relying on the same interaction that oneshots the whole screen.. boring
unofrtunately no reason to return to the game until next league

wdym they nerfed armour break for mace. Theres nothing in the patchnotes about that.

Also I'm currently Titan mace and I'm literally one shotting the entire screen with Mace Strike that AOE armour breaks and heavystuns in T15 maps. Mace is good lmao.

I main a 94 Warrior Titan, I'm at the end game, pinnacle kills under my belt. Warrior is ok in certain builds but really under performs compared to almost every class in this game.

For transparency I run a stampede / hammer of the gods build, I clear about as well and as fast as is possible on my titan, I one shot a lot of bosses with HOTG at almost 200k Tool tip base damage.

Defensively comparing survival modes, armor is it stands (Prior to this patch) is not ok, if you watched the interview Darthmicrotransaction summed up the state of warrior quite well, worst offensive, worst defensive, and worst playability.

The problem for Warriors comes down to 1. Tankyness and 2. usability, survivability needs to come up for the melee centric nature of the class, whether that be in armor buffs or fortify being reintroduced, something of that nature.

usability however is where there is room to grow, the skill speed and overall movement penalties on the class have to be blunted in the future to make it feel more connected, whether that be through modifications of the global skill speed of the animations or additions in the tree.

I would say right now with how the game is designed from a high end perspective the glaring weakness I've noticed in the warriors kit is a couple decent mid to short range reliable quick heavy clearing skills.

Perfect strike sounds nice on paper but usability wise is absolute trash, it leaves you vulnerable to everything most of the time getting you gibbed, its hit box is damn near non existent and requires the timing on every strike or else its flat ineffective, in comparison to every class in this game who can simply press a button and delete the screen skills like this have no place.

Supercharged slam? Was the perfect strike OG, until it was repeatedly nerfed into non existence. Right now Mace specifically has 4 missing skill slots on the tree, hopefully some of these missing skills fill out this role a bit better.

Sunder works well, however the cast time again doesn't feel good in late game and once again leaves you far too open with how the mob speed ramps up in design.

Pinnacle bossing on a warrior is a maddening affair, if you aren't 1 shotting with HOTG, trading with pinnacle boss mechanics with the slow clunky nature of a warrior just feels awful.

Take Xeshet for example, the rapid skill casts of his dive finger maneuver, coupled with the giant hand, coupled with the laser beams, coupled with the summons of ice minions, coupled with the summoning of the "Throwing hands" mechanic keeps you dodging over and over and over and over with very few windows for ANY of our skills to really get damage in leaving you in this endless cycle of survival in some cases unable to even get a chip damage window in, and when you do? Oh yeah, he's regenerated his entire energy shield so good luck with that.

As I said, some builds are viable, a good sunder build feels ok, Stampede clears really well, HOTG feels good for a one shot (the miss is gutwrenching tho ooof) I've seen some Ok molten blast skills, Totems of course and theres some magma shield builds out there that look interesting in very specific scenarios but otherwise comparatively speaking the amount of effort required to play the class in regards TO LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE is not on the level.

Either they patch the holes in the class, or they plan to bring every class in line with it, one or the other I can't say.

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raV#3445 wrote:

Arent both these things esssentially using the same interaction by chaining off of itself?

No, heralds can't chain off of itself inherently. Either need to use Polcirkeln ring, or using both herald of ice and thunder and then cross-infuse them to apply different elemental ailment. Thunder to freeze and ice to shock, then boom.

Heralds working as intended aside from bugs with Mahuxotl (which has already been addressed). Gutting heralds will change nothing because the problem is not with heralds. The problem is that players are forced into one-tap widescreen aoe clear to be efficient at the endgame. Heralds, armour break, cultist greathammer, spark, are just the band-aid solutions of the horrible endgame balance.

Nerfing heralds will just move players into another widescreen aoe clear, like cultist greathammer, spark, bows, cast on X, everything that can clear mobs within seconds. And then players will complain again because of cultist greathammer, spark, bows, cast on X, and so on and so forth until no single archetype able to have widescreen aoe clear.

But at that point, will the endgame mapping be way way different than PoE 1 endgame ? Will the game moving away from the principle of "kill as much and as fast possible, or die / stuck in progress." ? Will players able to accept the changes to PoE 1 power fantasy of horde killing in PoE 2 ? I doubt PoE 2 will move into that direction.

So imo, PoE 2 was never intended to be THE much more methodical and slower combat than PoE 1. It was a bit slower, a bit methodical, only in few early acts but then goes full PoE 1 power fantasy all over again. But then a question rise from that, why differentiate the 2 games if both are just basically the same ? Hmm I wonder.....

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

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BIGMP#3106 wrote:

Troll response. They have the dev environment to test these variables after coming to a conclusion.

Have a good one!

It's Early Access. This is the time to find those issues. This isn't a big giant company like Blizzard. Early Access is needed to sort through things like balance, when you have thousands of times more people testing than a few dozen at most, and that's taking them from doing their work. It's not a troll response, it's just not the sugar coated approach you'd prefer.

I don't think this is a troll response; I think it's a white knight response.

I’m guessing you’re not a GGG employee, so why are you trying so hard to explain things for GGG as if they’re completely overwhelmed, powerless, and the only option they have is to deliver such poor results? The conclusion that "ES cannot be affected by bleeding" is something anyone could have easily deduced with simple reasoning. Yet, Mark and Jonathan acted as though it was some groundbreaking new discovery. Is this really the kind of revelation that requires an enormous investment of time to figure out?

And Jonathan only played through the Warrior’s Campaign before declaring that everything was fine. The reality is that HP/armor starts to weaken rapidly as levels increase after the campaign. Is this truly a result of them lacking manpower and being unable to do better?

I don’t think it’s bad for customers to care about the challenges faced by developers. But the way GGG fans try to fabricate a sob story of struggles and excuses to convince themselves that the poor design choices in front of them are somehow reasonable—no, that’s just pathological.