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Answer to the title: Because you enjoy the gameplay.
If playing the game is fun, then some XP loss shouldn't be a huge deal.
If your only purpose is to chase bigger numbers and nothing else matters, ... Well.
Idk what to say to that. I don't know if it's really going to be good or fun for you in the long term. Alas, anyone with access to the game database could just increase your numbers by a bit every day - effect would be the same.
You know there's a whole scene of players who play characters that they remove or stop playing if they die even once. Some people think that means you lost say, 50 hours of playtime.
But.. If that 50 hours was fun in itself, you lost nothing. You had fun for 50 hours. That can't be taken away from you.
If the only enjoyment you derive from the game is to see numbers go up, I'd honestly recommend idle games.
Your point is a false equivalence, the people who lose in hardcore willingly put up with it and the adrenaline is part of the fun of it. Not everyone seeks the same kind of thrill.
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Jan 4, 2025, 8:28:04 PM
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Answer to the title: Because you enjoy the gameplay.
If playing the game is fun, then some XP loss shouldn't be a huge deal.
If your only purpose is to chase bigger numbers and nothing else matters, ... Well.
Idk what to say to that. I don't know if it's really going to be good or fun for you in the long term. Alas, anyone with access to the game database could just increase your numbers by a bit every day - effect would be the same.
You know there's a whole scene of players who play characters that they remove or stop playing if they die even once. Some people think that means you lost say, 50 hours of playtime.
But.. If that 50 hours was fun in itself, you lost nothing. You had fun for 50 hours. That can't be taken away from you.
If the only enjoyment you derive from the game is to see numbers go up, I'd honestly recommend idle games.
Your point is a false equivalence, the people who lose in hardcore willingly put up with it and the adrenaline is part of the fun of it. Not everyone seeks the same kind of thrill.
I'm not making a direct comparison with HC players.
I am saying that if "Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake?" is fulfilled by losing 10% of your XP towards your next level on death, then idk, I'm not sure it sounds like the actual gameplay is fun to you insomuch as just seeing the level go higher.
I don't know. Maybe seeing everything explode in fancy colors is the fun part.
Unless you're level 90+, you "lost" at most like an hour of grind. And it's just a prompt at making you think more about survivability.
You don't actually really die to a single mistake in this game, aside of a few particular tricky bosses.
Mapping ordinarily juiced maps, you can't die to a single mistake. You have to do like 3 mistakes in a row.
Last edited by tzaeru#0912 on Jan 4, 2025, 8:46:04 PM
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Posted bytzaeru#0912on Jan 4, 2025, 8:44:30 PM
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Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake? For some, penalties add excitement, but for others, they turn fun into frustration. A simple solution? Add an option to toggle penalties—offering a challenge for those seeking it and freedom for those not. Let every player enjoy the journey their way.
For now, I’ve uninstalled the game. I’ll return if GGG realizes they’re losing players for no good reason.
Exp penalty should be removed years ago.
Right now the only way to get stronger at 85 is to spend days trying to buy gear.
Doing maps will result in time wasted and leveling the other way.
Waiting this bad design to be fixed
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Posted bySwdan#2149on Jan 4, 2025, 9:26:15 PM
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I am saying that if "Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake?" is fulfilled by losing 10% of your XP towards your next level on death, then idk, I'm not sure it sounds like the actual gameplay is fun to you insomuch as just seeing the level go higher.
It's not about the numbers, it's not about reaching 100, it's about the message.
Every game offers a balance between time investment and rewards. And the negative consequences in PoE2 regarding a single death are devastating.
Of course, it's perfectly fine to get punished for making mistakes. But the amount of punishments is what can unbalance the psychological impact on players to feel demotivated to carry on. Given the fact that PoE is a VERY complex and complicated vessel offering tons of possibilities, this freedom can't be used to approach the games in a creative way when every tiny mistake is so crucial, that it resets your efforts with zero tolerance.
Players will look for the meta to survive, players will look for the 'safe way' and players will try to circumvent any mistake at any cost. I don't know, what should be so good with this concept to even die on that hill instead of revisiting the scratch board to analyze, what kind of punishment is the perfect fit and what dose is motivating and does not feel devastating.
This is what good modern games have in common: they offer a carrot, the chase for the carrot is fun, the chase for the carrot is also challenging, but ideally it NEVER puts you in frustration. No game offers 'easy modes' as so many gatekeepers stated here. Elden Ring has no easy mode. But it has a perfect balance of not devastatingly frustrate it's players.
Jonathan has no easy job in even balancing the right amount of past (PoE1) and future (PoE2) in selecting the ingrediences, that will make GGG's new game a new standard and not just a texture update.
Last edited by AngryGekko#0233 on Jan 4, 2025, 9:31:54 PM
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Posted byAngryGekko#0233on Jan 4, 2025, 9:30:39 PM
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Theres a lot of systems that are a decade plus beyond their lifespan and exp loss is one, may as well just add TP scrolls and de-leveling. Lets also drop any gold thats not stashed and your gear and make you do a body run - no you can't log out and have it in your hideout.
Last edited by Karishin#7986 on Jan 4, 2025, 9:33:58 PM
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Posted byKarishin#7986on Jan 4, 2025, 9:33:02 PM
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Okay T1 white maps was a stretch but the point still stands.
the point is still wrong
It really does, especially when you don't ignore 90% of what I wrote.
If you think farming content that you can easily farm is a challenge versus a time sink - we can't debate anything.
We've already talked about it on another forum.
I have multiple characters in PoE that could farm RoTa's and end game bosses... but I would never be able to hit 100 in the league.
It's not asking much when I say I'm hopeful to have a better balance than what is currently available.
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Posted byPhillipBurns#5461on Jan 4, 2025, 9:39:42 PM
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Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake? For some, penalties add excitement, but for others, they turn fun into frustration. A simple solution? Add an option to toggle penalties—offering a challenge for those seeking it and freedom for those not. Let every player enjoy the journey their way.
For now, I’ve uninstalled the game. I’ll return if GGG realizes they’re losing players for no good reason.
Exp penalty should be removed years ago.
Right now the only way to get stronger at 85 is to spend days trying to buy gear.
Doing maps will result in time wasted and leveling the other way.
Waiting this bad design to be fixed
if you build needs to be higher than 85 to come online and clear endgame then your build is bad
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Posted bymurdouken#6360on Jan 4, 2025, 10:01:08 PM
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I am saying that if "Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake?" is fulfilled by losing 10% of your XP towards your next level on death, then idk, I'm not sure it sounds like the actual gameplay is fun to you insomuch as just seeing the level go higher.
It's not about the numbers, it's not about reaching 100, it's about the message.
Every game offers a balance between time investment and rewards. And the negative consequences in PoE2 regarding a single death are devastating.
Of course, it's perfectly fine to get punished for making mistakes. But the amount of punishments is what can unbalance the psychological impact on players to feel demotivated to carry on. Given the fact that PoE is a VERY complex and complicated vessel offering tons of possibilities, this freedom can't be used to approach the games in a creative way when every tiny mistake is so crucial, that it resets your efforts with zero tolerance.
Players will look for the meta to survive, players will look for the 'safe way' and players will try to circumvent any mistake at any cost. I don't know, what should be so good with this concept to even die on that hill instead of revisiting the scratch board to analyze, what kind of punishment is the perfect fit and what dose is motivating and does not feel devastating.
This is what good modern games have in common: they offer a carrot, the chase for the carrot is fun, the chase for the carrot is also challenging, but ideally it NEVER puts you in frustration. No game offers 'easy modes' as so many gatekeepers stated here. Elden Ring has no easy mode. But it has a perfect balance of not devastatingly frustrate it's players.
Jonathan has no easy job in even balancing the right amount of past (PoE1) and future (PoE2) in selecting the ingrediences, that will make GGG's new game a new standard and not just a texture update.
if 10% xp loss is "devastating" to you I suggest you acquire some real problems
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Posted bymurdouken#6360on Jan 4, 2025, 10:02:59 PM
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Why invest hours into a game to risk losing everything with one mistake? For some, penalties add excitement, but for others, they turn fun into frustration. A simple solution? Add an option to toggle penalties—offering a challenge for those seeking it and freedom for those not. Let every player enjoy the journey their way.
For now, I’ve uninstalled the game. I’ll return if GGG realizes they’re losing players for no good reason.
Exp penalty should be removed years ago.
Right now the only way to get stronger at 85 is to spend days trying to buy gear.
Doing maps will result in time wasted and leveling the other way.
Waiting this bad design to be fixed
if you build needs to be higher than 85 to come online and clear endgame then your build is bad
And when your build is higher than 85 and can clear all endgame content but still doesn't have the ability to hit level 100 therein lies a problem.
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Posted byPhillipBurns#5461on Jan 4, 2025, 10:04:26 PM
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And when your build is higher than 85 and can clear all endgame content but still doesn't have the ability to hit level 100 therein lies a problem.
Why is it a problem? Why do you need to hit 100? Because it's there? Did someone promise you you would be able to get everything the game has to offer? This isn't gatekeeping, this is me genuinely asking what's so special about level 100 that you need to it be practically achievable? Because there is some merit to goals that are realistically unachievable for most people. It gives them something to strive for. We're not all after the shiny at the end. Some of us are happy with an infinite journey... as long as it's fun. Currently, endgame is not fun, but I don't think that has anything to do with the experience penalty.
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Posted bydrkekyll#1294on Jan 4, 2025, 10:12:53 PM
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