Energy shield vs Hp in poe 2

We had a discussion with friends about the mechanics of the "energy
shield" defense in poe and its implementation in poe 2.
The essence of the question is that in poe 2 it became easy to gain and increase the amount of energy shield due to many skill points in the tree, gems and runes for defense, unlike the amount of health, as a result, gaining 3 000 health not on a character with the main attribute of strength without damaging armor or evasion becomes very difficult and expensive, but you can get 6000 es, and increase it due to the new aura in battle to 12,000 es, allowing you to survive much more one-time damage, thereby saving yourself from one-shots. Which in my opinion would be very unfair to the HP versions of the builds, that even if you play on a titan and have 4500 health, it still can't compare to 12,000 es, given that almost all of these characters through es take full immunity to chaos and get such strong advantages as free suffixes in things, since there is no need to gain resistance to chaos and full immunity to damage over time that hits HP first.
But I decided that GGG could not allow such a mistake and injustice, and made it so that the energy shield is now just a defense mechanic, and not real health, that is, in other words, cleaner hits pass through the energy shield, for example without taking into account resistance, and other protection such as armor, so for example, with full resistances of 75%, a player with 3,000 health will receive only 2500 damage out of 10,000 elemental damage, and a player with 12,000es will receive 10,000 damage, as a result, both players will survive the damage. Which looks adequate, in the opposite case, if it does not work like that, then this is very stupid, since for a player with hp, if a monster has resistance penetration or a map has minus maximum resistance, then most likely 10,000 damage will become fatal, and for a player with an energy shield it is still 10,000 damage.
Thus, a player with HP, in order to survive very deadly pokes, needs to have much more HP, which is impossible to do in the current version of the game, not on a titan, but to do 50% + evasion and 12k esa is quite real. In short, could you clarify this point, how does the energy shield work, how does the effective hit pool for the character's HP count, and how for a character with chaos immunity and for some reason 4 times more ES than HP on the hero, with the same contents in things.
It's just that if es also takes into account resistance, then 10,000 damage turns into 2,500 under 75% resistance, as a result, I will be able to survive 4 such attacks with 12,000 es, and with 3,000 hp, which the game offers me with absolutely the same investments in things (tier 9 hp and evasion is equal in cost to tier 9 es and evasion) I will die with 2 hits. WHICH IS COMPLETE ABSURDIT

the main reason for my indignation and dissatisfaction is that at the moment the game is completely unfair to the HP version of the character, because in the game the maximum one-time damage to you is actually very important for battles with high-level bosses and monsters, especially now when you only have one attempt to kill. Therefore, I would like GGG to pay attention and solve this injustice, where es, if it works as health points, taking into account resistances and armor, has become very easy and cheap to collect, and as a result, a full effective health reserve of 6000 -12,000 es for one-time damage to you and avoiding one-shots from bosses, as well as the presence of free suffixes for rarity or damage due to chaos immunity, and belts and rings now do not have an energy shield, which were also necessary for es builds in poe 1 to gain 6k+ es, and now they are taken entirely for damage, and a unique belt is put on to enhance the rings to get a giant increase in rarity, damage and resistances, in short, all this looks fucking strong, at the same time a pitiful 3,000 health with not full resistance to chaos while with things with occupied prefixes with health and with chaos resistances in suffixes, instead of damage or rarity for a crazy overprice, and besides, they are not able to absorb the same amount of damage as 6000es. All this sounds very dull, in poe 1 es version was always considered more powerful, but expensive, while now es is several times cheaper than hp, but at the same time several times stronger. As a solution, the ease of getting es should be negated, either by making it easier for the enemy to remove it, since es will take 2 times more damage than hp from all types of damage, not just chaos, or it will be easier to increase hp to 5,000-6,000, or 6,000 es will again become very difficult to get on items, otherwise what is the point of tumbling in the game, when a person with the hp version is forced to tumble from fatal blows the entire game, but the character on the energy shield just stands and gets everything in the face and worries. PLEASE SUPPORT THIS POST IF YOU THINK THE SAME.

Text is easier to digest if split up a bit

the way i see it removing life nodes from tree is a good move.

the problem is, they kept ES nodes in so life is fucked in comparison.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

the way i see it removing life nodes from tree is a good move.

the problem is, they kept ES nodes in so life is fucked in comparison.

ES would be reasonable if they made it like with mana. Mana got like what? 3 nodes on tree? totalling 21% inc max mana , one of those nodes is inside an ES cluster being pretty worthless so its more realistically 17% inc max on tree.

Not to mention that ES values are higher than life values are on gear.

From witch start you get +75% inc ES for 5 points in comparison.

MoM feels fine, you get a slight edge over life most of the time, at the cost of half your recovery and most likely having zero other mitigation layers than a life build. Not to mention you are effectively playing "blood magic"

Not to mention grim feast giving insane recovery including overstacking, because ES needed a 100% more es reservation for 30 spirit

"

Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

the way i see it removing life nodes from tree is a good move.

the problem is, they kept ES nodes in so life is fucked in comparison.

ES would be reasonable if they made it like with mana. Mana got like what? 3 nodes on tree? totalling 21% inc max mana , one of those nodes is inside an ES cluster being pretty worthless so its more realistically 17% inc max on tree.

Not to mention that ES values are higher than life values are on gear.

From witch start you get +75% inc ES for 5 points in comparison.

MoM feels fine, you get a slight edge over life most of the time, at the cost of half your recovery and most likely having zero other mitigation layers than a life build. Not to mention you are effectively playing "blood magic"

Not to mention grim feast giving insane recovery including overstacking, because ES needed a 100% more es reservation for 30 spirit

Yes, grim feast is very strong skill for 30 spirit)

As for mana, it s very complex mechanics in the game, which can directly affect the survival and damage of the build, so I think that's why they didn't add it to the tree, so as not to inflate it too much, since a lot of mana is made on things and intelligence gives mana, well, as a rule, I don't remember builds that don't need intelligence, but you need a lot of mana, these are mutually complementary parameters in the game, as a rule, which cannot be said about HP and energy shield. If I don't want to collect ES on an archer and a mercenary and play through the HP version, I should be able to make myself a sufficient amount of HP in the endgame for good investments in order to survive a one-shot, as players do now on ES for a low price.

life probleme is armor i mean.

for balance with es armor should work fine and mitigate phys but should mitigate a part of elem dmg aswell. ( or add more +x % max res node near life start build on tree).

the downside of es vs life and mana is the delay of recover ( 4s without boost, 1s with +300% faster start), in combat 4s is long, and 300% take all node + jewel, where life and mana don't stop recovery.

btw the point you get , there is a lot of es too much ? yep maybe , but not as much as i imagine you thing.

i hope ggg start to fix armor issu first, then check mitigattion for life , then check es node .... and not in other order

edit:

and have no es leech...

"

laurent67#6296 wrote:

life probleme is armor i mean.

for balance with es armor should work fine and mitigate phys but should mitigate a part of elem dmg aswell. ( or add more +x % max res node near life start build on tree).

the downside of es vs life and mana is the delay of recover ( 4s without boost, 1s with +300% faster start), in combat 4s is long, and 300% take all node + jewel, where life and mana don't stop recovery.

btw the point you get , there is a lot of es too much ? yep maybe , but not as much as i imagine you thing.

i hope ggg start to fix armor issu first, then check mitigattion for life , then check es node .... and not in other order

edit:

and have no es leech...

yes, the game should have the ability to apply armor to additionally reduce damage from all types of damage due to a global reduction in armor and, for example, maximum resistances, just as there is the ability to make dodging universal to all attacks, due to acrobatics.
As for the recover of the es, now it can be easily regenerated with instant flasks, which is also very strong

not getting hit is superior to having more HP(ES). High evasion is better, or high armor. there is no way to replenish ES like with a potion or skills. You need to wait for the ES to start recharging, default 4 seconds, minor nodes are only 15% increase, to get 100% faster you need like 6 skills and that cuts the timer by half so 2 seconds and if you take damage while recharging, it will stop. There is no ES leech anymore so life build have far superior sustain. Your only chance of survival is stacking ES high enough to withstand at least 2 hits while armor/evasion build only need to survive 1 and then heal back up

Energy Shield is a defensive stat, not a 'life' stat. There are armor nodes and evasion nodes (and half of the energy shield nodes are recharge delay/recharge rate, not ammount). On top of the downsides to energy shield being less recoverable in combat, and being harder to gear for, you can eventually get quite high energy shield amounts, yes.

"

Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

Not to mention grim feast giving insane recovery including overstacking, because ES needed a 100% more es reservation for 30 spirit

This is a bigger problem, really. I love Grim Feast, but 'permanent' double Energy Shield makes mapping a breeze. Not sure if that needs to be nerfed, or if a life-suited aura (like the one that delayed damage over four seconds) would be better - depends on the greater vision of the game I guess. Right now it feels like it would make t15s a pita if they just nerf grim feast without reducing the damage thrown at you in high end maps.

Another problem is Blood Mage. I'm guessing everyone thinking getting 6k energy shield is easy are probably looking at blood mages. Reserving 500 life to get 500 flat energy shield which then gets multiplied by Energy Shield passives is a godly defensive buffer. Not sure how they'd fix that one. Increase the flat amount of energy shield on gear and reduce the +% energy shield passives to compensate?