Can we stop calling poe2 "souls like"
" Lol. An aRPG is a RPG dropping the story and role play to focus on slaying monsters and loot. It focus on character progression and use isometric view and procedural generation. aRPG originates from the visions of one guy and they are a subgenre of a genre invented by this same guy: looters. David Brevik invented aRPG with diablo and shooter looters with hellgate london. PoE2 answer in no way shape of form to the aRPG genre, it isn't a looter. Borderlands is closer to aRPGs than poe2 is. Just play RPGs. Last edited by epiphase#4568 on Dec 23, 2024, 8:05:59 AM
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This could go in lots of threads - but on the "souls" front, I think GGG need to decide roughly how powerful you are meant to be at various points (campaign through to mapping).
Maybe this is anathema to aRPG/loot-based game design - but its this which prompts the dichotomy. Player 1: I met a boss. It seems impossible. I have to chip them down over minutes, while carefully dodging all their attacks to avoid running out of healing. Player 2: I met a boss. I pushed a button or two. Boss died. To a degree so far so dark souls. In Elden Ring at least you can make characters that will absolutely melt bosses too. Arguably this all comes back to this debate over "vision". Are bosses - and even basic mobs/rares - meant to require some sort of "micro" to deal with. Are you meant to be timing dodge rolls to get out of attacks you can learn etc. Or are you just meant to get better gear, and watch everything instantly die, POE1 style? I mean in my case I found Act 1 on my first character "hard" (well, not that hard). This was however entirely because I was trying to clear with something like 25 DPS~. I took about 40 minutes to defeat the Count - and this is in part because a successful kill took literally 5 minutes. To be clear - I thought that was great content, but maybe this is the "souls" mentality. It was a challenge - I defeated the challenge and felt achievement. On subsequent characters I've had maybe 4-6 times that DPS, and its been a cakewalk as a result. Which was the vision? The rest of the game basically plays out the same. If its hard, you are undergeared. The end. You then have other things. One death on maps. You have to grind the items of the ascendency trials - and there's a good chance RNG will say "nah, you lose. Get back to the grind." Its unclear whether this is "hard" so much as tedious. |
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Spoiler
" " I think gregoryadams puts it best: " " ----------- I don't think this is an aRPG. I think it's a Twin-Stick-Shooter with Souls-Like bosses in a PoE setting. Twin-Stick tropes: --- Mechanic: You need to run backwards to avoid damage from mobs you can't 1 shot. --- Mechanic: You need to run around in circles while doing damage. --- WASD + Mouse or Left+Right joystick usage. --- High adrenaline aRPG tropes: --- Mechanic: Point and click movement --- Mechanic: You can stand in place while dishing a lot of dmg and move when necessary --- Low adrenaline and you entire a zen / meditative state while playing (most true with D2, POE can be chill once you have your gear setup ready and you are farming what you planned for) ----------- I think it's 1000% fair when someone says "Souls like", but can't quite pin-point why. I didn't understand it until it happened to me on my 3rd character ( https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3657278 ) It's not so much that we are playing a "Souls like" game, but that there is a sudden spike in difficulty that is very difficult to overcome.... and in my experience it was quite jarring. Then you realize you are in a twin-stick shooter and you are playing with some "Souls like" boss. The issue is balancing. While my necro trivialized the entire content and I saw no difficulty, my sorc was getting destroyed. I even had to invest in +level to all skill gems in A1 and do some reasearch (SPOILER: 80% guides and GGG's support recommendations are trash) and only THEN I was able to start the last area. Doing the A1 boss was literally impossible. I didn't have enough cold res and something would eventually slow me down or freeze me. They removed gem XP so I couldn't over level my gems (DAMAGE!) so I asked for a boss killer. A2, same deal again! now with the Hyena-centaur things... I died more in A1-A2(start) than entire other playthroughs. I got furious and put on my rat king hat and cheese the F out of that boss. Only to discover players have 2 curses on them: 1- bosses get movement speed and action speed boost on their last 30% HP and 2- those animations that make it look like you are moonwalking they are always that slow!!! So you are moving at 20% movementspeed and you cast a skill and you are moonwalking in slow motion!!! RIDICULOUS. I was there with D1,D2... and the entire ensemble after that for what it's worth. Last edited by BlackMarshes212#1072 on Dec 23, 2024, 7:09:27 AM
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" First guy with actual technical arguments. Refreshing. |
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For what it's worth, it does seem the masses feel this way in a way, as you can see their official Steam Store page has a categorized tag for it set for their product under "Popular user-defined tags for this product:" for "Souls-like" - so there's some weight to that.
"PoE1 Clone Has No Future!" ;) | EA 0.2 | Trade is EZ mode. ;) | Path of Trading ;) | "TLDR: -1 Devs ohhh" (Lol.) | "I've played a lot of videogames. It's my primary recreational activity. Best games ever: Elden Ring and Diablo 4." ~Elon Musk, 2023 | "Dawg", "IQ 48" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | [Removed by Support] Last edited by chobo999#2010 on Dec 23, 2024, 7:15:37 AM
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I think people call it soulslike because of its increased focus on dodging certain attacks that can very punishing on top of the idea that if you die, you start over. Having to learn the attack pattern of a boss, potentially dieing several times in this process.
It's also the dark environment that the game takes place in. How the bosses transform into grotesque creatures mid way through. The music that protrays certain emotions. It's these things that have similarities to souls like bosses. Obviously the game plays nothing like a souls game. But it's not a stretch for people to call it souls like in it's feeling. |
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