Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

The XP penalty serves a very important purpose and must not be removed.

It disincentivizes players to just mindlessly bash their heads against the wall and die over and over in content their character is not yet fit to play.

When you reach a point in an ARPG where you keep dying, the game is trying to tell you that your character is too weak for that kind of content. It is an obstacle that is presented to you to overcome. It is part of the progression of an ARPG.

In PoE especially the player can choose the difficulty of the content 100%. You choose the waystone/map tier, you choose the affixes of the waystone/map, you choose the additional content you do. Each of these things make the map harder or easier depending on your decision.

In my case for example. My build was able to clear the map tiers relatively safe up to tier 15. But when I opened a breach in tier 15 I was at risk of becoming overrun. Since my first priority was the Atlas passive points I simply avoided additional map content until I finished my 6 tier 15 maps. This way I was able to keep the difficulty in an area where I felt comfortable. My decision. Now that I have all Atlas passive points but my character is still not as strong I simply run tier 13 maps but can do all additional content in them without too much risk.

For some strange reason people nowadays are under the misconception that it is always the games fault. When in fact they simply do not want to look how to overcome an obstacle that is part of the natural progression. Most players have that typical LoL or WoW mentality of "I am the god gamer. It is my teammates fault that I do not reach diamond/Gladiator. I could reach that rank easily if I would not be kept down by others."

In PoE 1 this was mostly avoided because the requirements for build guides became so high, that basically every starter build had to be able to clear the campaign naked, finish the Atlas in blue items, be an excellent bosser and be able to do every league mechanic. In PoE 2 the knowledge simply is not yet there to do this. So we are back at the "work on your character" state.

If you die the simple fact is that it was your bad decision making. Except of some unfair one shots, which GGG already started to address and will continue to improve.

+1 exactly

I think they will address the 1 portal policy but thats just my prediction. Xp loss on death will stay and it should stay its a core design feature and cant be removed without trivializing the game

I come from a different mindset where I don’t feel entitled to reach max level, and I tend not to be interested in games where it’s easy to reach max level, but then you have to keep progressing in gear after that. I’d rather have reaching max level be the goal rather than the means to some other goal.

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

The XP penalty serves a very important purpose and must not be removed.

It disincentivizes players to just mindlessly bash their heads against the wall and die over and over in content their character is not yet fit to play.

When you reach a point in an ARPG where you keep dying, the game is trying to tell you that your character is too weak for that kind of content. It is an obstacle that is presented to you to overcome. It is part of the progression of an ARPG.

In PoE especially the player can choose the difficulty of the content 100%. You choose the waystone/map tier, you choose the affixes of the waystone/map, you choose the additional content you do. Each of these things make the map harder or easier depending on your decision.

In my case for example. My build was able to clear the map tiers relatively safe up to tier 15. But when I opened a breach in tier 15 I was at risk of becoming overrun. Since my first priority was the Atlas passive points I simply avoided additional map content until I finished my 6 tier 15 maps. This way I was able to keep the difficulty in an area where I felt comfortable. My decision. Now that I have all Atlas passive points but my character is still not as strong I simply run tier 13 maps but can do all additional content in them without too much risk.

For some strange reason people nowadays are under the misconception that it is always the games fault. When in fact they simply do not want to look how to overcome an obstacle that is part of the natural progression. Most players have that typical LoL or WoW mentality of "I am the god gamer. It is my teammates fault that I do not reach diamond/Gladiator. I could reach that rank easily if I would not be kept down by others."

In PoE 1 this was mostly avoided because the requirements for build guides became so high, that basically every starter build had to be able to clear the campaign naked, finish the Atlas in blue items, be an excellent bosser and be able to do every league mechanic. In PoE 2 the knowledge simply is not yet there to do this. So we are back at the "work on your character" state.

If you die the simple fact is that it was your bad decision making. Except of some unfair one shots, which GGG already started to address and will continue to improve.

+1 exactly

This is hilarious. Do you think everyone doesn't have a life? Punishment is fine, but shouldn't it be phased and limited? Right now, I can play for 10 hours without any issue, but I might also face consecutive extreme situations within two hours. If I complete two maps but die just once, all my experience is reset to zero! If I'm unlucky and this repeats a few times over two hours, is that considered a strategic mistake? Then what about everything before that? Even if it is a mistake, I still need gear to swap out, money to test different talents, and enough items to experiment with such decisions! This isn't freedom! How can you talk about changing decisions when you're strictly limiting others' choices?

If your theory is correct, with the internet being so advanced now, do you think everyone is foolish enough not to seek ways to improve their survival skills? If the majority are asking for the removal of punishment and you still think it's reasonable, then your logic itself is flawed! Whether removing punishment is good or not, at the very least, the severity of the penalty should vary at levels 70, 80, or 90. That would make more sense, at least giving players unfamiliar with the game a better chance to understand it and address the low drop rates for equipment.

Games should become more challenging as you progress, not easier as you level up! At level 70, losing half an hour's worth of experience for dying once is excessive. You can keep this "reasonable" setting if you think it's justified, but I certainly won't waste my time on this game endlessly. Without progress, it's a complete waste of time.

yes, if you die every second map, you wont get to lvl 100. and its fine that way. if you think this is waste of time, feel free play something else.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

By the way, this spaghetti code also made it into PoE 2: If your character has Thorns Damage and the map or monster has a chance to Poison, the mobs will inflict Poison on themselves.

Is that how I was afflicting shock without any damage to do so? It must apply to other things too like bleed and the like.

Level 100 isn't necessary for anything, and it's usually the least powerful point in your build. It's your worst stat point. All of your most important points come earlier, of course, and your last choice at level 100 is the one you need least, the one you wait longest to spec.

Level 100 isn't necessary and there's no reason to feel entitled to achieving it. If you want it, put in the work everyone else puts in by playing very carefully for a long time, or getting an extremely safe build, or buying levelling carries.

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

Level 100 isn't necessary for anything, and it's usually the least powerful point in your build. It's your worst stat point. All of your most important points come earlier, of course, and your last choice at level 100 is the one you need least, the one you wait longest to spec.

Level 100 isn't necessary and there's no reason to feel entitled to achieving it. If you want it, put in the work everyone else puts in by playing very carefully for a long time, or getting an extremely safe build, or buying levelling carries.

Buying Carries should be directly banned from the game... for any kind of content. It's as stupid as is comes if a game is designed in a way that people feel the need to pay for power level...

Playing a safe build on purpose makes the freedom of choice obsolete... I want to test things out and play around myself without watching guides. People who are watching guides are equally as bad as the people showing off with them.

If you are telling me that you can clear tier 15 maps without any damage and with what ever skill but you haven't put in a single thought into the build yourself, then you archived nothing but praising yourself with other peoples work. People like this don't even need to talk to me about being good or bad.

As for the work everyone puts in... I don't see it as work to run low tier maps by the thousands just because the game is designed in a way that you get punished for playing content more equal to your level...


I currently run Tier 15 maps and as long as there is no crit or high extra damage mod on the map I can even run the bosses and other events. But a single misstep and I can very well die. Yesterday and today together 3 deaths. 1 because shield charged charged into a shrine - texture bug, couldn't move, roll, leap = death. Next one was one of these rolling enemies that can knock you... It knocked me into a texture in the crypt map. Same thing... stuck, couldn't move, couldn't roll or leap away. Died again... The 3rd death was an insta kill with floor damage. I couldn't see shit due to the enemy amount and their effects. Hence the question why we don't have a log that shows the damage we receive. It would be more than obvious how many deaths occur due to calculation bugs.

So don't tell me anything about that the EXP loss has to stay. There are plenty of reasons to to remove it. And as you said yourself: It's not necessary to be level 100 so it's not bad or good. Why not reach it then without EXP loss? But like I also said before: Removing the Loss doesn't change a lot about the amount of people reaching lv 100. The once that does - no matter what - will do it 1 day sooner. And the others might get closer before they quit.

being level 100 is NO accomplishment because every dull can reach it with almost every semi valid endgame build. You just need time... time to run about 5.000 Tier 10 maps. Everyone who reaches level 100 this way and want to tell me something about difficulties or EXP loss is on the same pedestal as the build copy gamer.

Everyone can play as he wants... But stop telling others whats right or wrong. And removing the EXP loss hurts nobody while having it in the game scares off basically every ARPG Gamer I know but 2 people who are still playing. And we have enough confirmation about this here... and basically not valid argument to keep it in the game.

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

Level 100 isn't necessary for anything, and it's usually the least powerful point in your build. It's your worst stat point. All of your most important points come earlier, of course, and your last choice at level 100 is the one you need least, the one you wait longest to spec.

Level 100 isn't necessary and there's no reason to feel entitled to achieving it. If you want it, put in the work everyone else puts in by playing very carefully for a long time, or getting an extremely safe build, or buying levelling carries.

If it’s not that important why add a time wasting and unpopular mechanic to slow your ascent towards it?

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

My character shouldn't have died to this. I was overprepared for Ele Reflect. I simply was unaware of a bug that rendered my countermeasures completely useless.

At this very moment poe2 is unplayable for me. I can play with around 20ms latency wich is fine only to around 1pm.
Then it goes from 20 to 300-400-500 or more.
Just died a while ago, so atm i'm giving up.
This problem is around a week or more, i know it's holidays but ffs if this is the only reason GGG is doing nothing with lag spikes, then they shouldnt release EA in decemeber, but after new year. Simple as that.