Infernalist - What happened with this design?

At first glance for myself from the stream and Ascendancy nodes. I saw a hybrid Caster + Minion class. Keep your minions around. Blow them up. Cast spells at the expense of safety.

But now I can't express how much help this Ascendancy needs. There's a reason all the higher level Infernalist are strictly minion builds besides minions being notoriously easy.



Demon Form: It's already been explained on it's major flaws. Either Gear is too strong, the form is too weak or we should be able to stack both stats but there's more.

Demon Form also directly eats your life which is important for other things in this class.

Pyromatic Pact lets you have unlimited casting but you no longer have mana so no MoM or Battery though it's not hard to offset with ES recovery speed. It's a neat base concept.

The other two nodes after it however are just bad. In part because Ignite is just a primer. It doesn't actually deal any notable damage.

Bringer of Flame is rather pointless since plenty of skills and the Dog can prime Ignite.

Seething Body wants you to sit at high flame which negates the point of having endless casting that hurts you. You can try to manage it for minions but there's better options and you lost MoM

Grinning Immolation can only be countered with MoM/HP since you will never have ES.

Do you see how these interactions conflict with each other in how they can be built?

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Demon Form should be an overlay and not remove weapon stats. Tweak it's numbers.
I personally think gear stats are too high and you're not giving yourself any power creep room.

Bringer of Flame does just about nothing since Ignite is a primer. You could change this to any other thematic node or use it to drastically improve Ignite damage.

Seething Body should accumulate extra damage bonus each time you cast a spell while also increasing the damage Pyromaniac Pact deals to you.

Grinning Immolation is a tough sell without both Eldritch battery + MoM. Which as mentioned conflicts with Pyromaniac Pact. It's not bad as a perk but it's downside doesn't work.

Altered Flesh is whatever. Kinda weak since I've not seen over 78% Max Res. If you max Chaos it's 15% Physical which is it's saving grace.

Reserve 25% Vitality for X The ratios just aren't good. Get one extra Summon. If you're full summon get a little more for MoM. Otherwise really weak conversion ratios.

EDIT: typos

Demon form:Requires massive regen when the game has almost zero regen on gear OR on the tree.

The dog is cute. Dies fast, respawns fast. So slapped 4 seconds life on death for it to just be their and soak damage... I think.

For Demon Form, would have liked to have an attack variant and not only spells. Yeah witch "is" spells, but where is the fun in traversing the passive tree if you can't really traverse it due to being held back by ascendancies.

I am now on the early maps, around 6-10. My build is ice demon form.

With the Ghoswrithe robe and Ming hear to lower my HP and have 20+ or clsoe to life per regen on every gear that can have it, ring, belt, helm, amulet, i do not have problem going to like 40-50 stacks before losing hp.

On boss fight i want to push this to like 90ish to burst the boss with ice bomb, ice wall, eye storm etc, just get as much spell out as the boss is frozen.

The build does not have much mitigation and using only MOM+EB so its kind of glass canon. That is why i chose ice since it has freeze and ice wall to kinda be my damage mitigation. Versus Spark and Flameblast build that i tried, i died a lot getting surrounded while casting. On ice you have to freeze them so they dont swarm you fast. I had a hard time capping res due to limited slots since weap and shield is gone, and we have 2 uniques. I manage it but replacing one will overhaul everything just to cap the res again, except chaos which i think is around 50% due to the 2 unique having them.

There are a lots of cons especially early on when you do not have flat life regen on gear but i wont go there since that is a long explanation on my part.

Now for the Ascendancy for my demon form, not a lot of choices or actually non at all.

You cannot use dog on demon form, you dont want 10 stacks max on demon form since its not worth it, the high stacks is what makes it good that you can kill boss in like 5-10 secs, you dont want to reserve life since you actually have like little life on the build, I tried comparing how many stacks before using flask with the 25% life and non, and they almost the same around 69 stacks for my gear before i see my health go down.

The 30% crit bonus is lame, you can like get those on passive tree, unless this is multiplicative of what you have with the passive tree and not additive. I haven't tried it yet.

So my choices left are the mana and crit hit chance small ascendancy nodes. After that for my 7th and 8th? nothing. You dont want life and even if get the life nodes you have so little life to be worth. I am sitting on like 440 life right now and around 1k ES and 1800 Mana.

So far I am enjoying my frost demon witch build that I came up with, I got bored on the minions. Though I dont know how much viable this is on tier 16 maps, right now as far as I can see I am kind of capped on my gear that I do not know how to improve them now. Some optimization but most of it is done, get as much life regen per second, get your res capped, get a lot of mana on gear and thats it.

I agree with the points.

Currently i have 4/8 points but the only points that feel worth it (good) are Altered Flesh and the Flame Hound. Even if i can finally get my next points i might just spec them 2x into 3% more max hp(minor nodes) because the rest is either not good enough or straight up bad for your character.

The reserved life is a No-Go in higher maps where getting almost one-shot is the biggest problem and the self damage on all other nodes are really hard to counter with items and passives.

The crit node downside seems easy enough to counter with Zealoth's oath, the question is if the node is good enough to have a big downside.

The pyromantic pact downside however is absurd. I have 90% fire res and it just hits so hard, because it also scales with your max ES and max HP. So if you have 10k ES you take 1k ES dmg every few seconds even with 90% max res.

I think an easy solution is that it should damage you based on current ES / HP and not max HP. That also has positive synergy with the life reservation nodes making it hit you for less when reserving life.

Another option would be to combine Bringer of Flame and Seething Body into one node since they are individually so horrible, then you could add a node that heavily negates pyromantic pact downside.

Gemling gets 15% max resists with their node at minimum with full six links if they have rings or some other skills from gear they will be pushing 20% max resists.

Infernalist could have a node for +15% max fire res behind pyromantic pact and it would ease the gearing considerations when negating the downside.

i will probably add some key ideas from the other thread.

Pyromantic pact while cool at first sight its really a dumbed down version of mana, a lot of things stop working. I think that infernal flame could have a another infernal flame counter which can indefinitely increase and doesnt reset to zero so that it would be a lot easier to use "while on high infernal flame" condition, since now its really clunky. As for pyromantic pact itself receiving buffs I think it would be really cool if when picking pyromantic pact passive skill tree would receive changes like:
- since mom keystone becomes useless it could change into keystone called fire shield which maybe could remove all energy shield and then reduce fire damage taken based on es removed (maybe smth like 50 flat fire damage mitigation per 100 es removed), so it would be easier to tank pyromantic pact self damage and altered flesh would be more useful.
-Since allocating pyromantic pact playe no longer can use lightning storm and i think archmage it could grant new skill associated with infernal flame to keep it interesting. Like toggleable skill which makes infernal flame to cooldown uninterrupted meanwhile buffing spells based on infernal flame loss rate and burning player based on same loss rate. Here that overflowing infernal flame could be useful.

Bringer of flames could be changed to ever increasing cast rate based on current overflowing infernal flame. Could have rather high values because it also increases self damage frequency from pyromantic pact.

altered flesh could gain poison immunity so going low life would be more sensible.

demon form maybe could lose all that increasing stack thing, im not sure if slow ramping is even a good thing. Could be numerically adjusted and maybe giving a new skill to keep it interesting.

What are you talking about with Demonform!? XD

I have like 2000-2500 Spell power and blow up everything XD

5-6K ES there is a reason we dont need weps becse we are OP AF anyway XD Dont need to change

Push your build to as low hp as possible
> Do not eat those campaign free hp stuff

Im down to 160HP and mapping and stack regen on every gear i can and have like 90 stacks before my hp slowly draining and can maintain almost 150 stacks..

Its ur own build thats flawed with ur demonform, u gotta invest in reg and stop care about other stats.

>Reg > ES > Ress

thats all u need and u blow up bosses in secs and clear packs in 1 shots :D

Proof > Linked build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqc6z4qnutY&t=406s

Do not need buffs nor nerfs its perfect

So you dont want to change it because its "OP AF"? Second node doesnt make sense, its super clunky/painful to use. After solving this then rebalancing comes next to keep it in good spot. Also not sure on quite narrow gearing options, reduce life with these specific uniques to exploit high number of stacks.. also losing weapon/shield reduces diversity further.