Banning people for exploits

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Aynix wrote:

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xaerobb wrote:

Why punish anyone? This is a game not a criminal case.
The bug is a consequence of irresponsibility and non-optimization of the game by the GGG team.

Because its against ToS. You know, that thing you never read.

Is it, though? Which part?

They aint banning anyone, this is classic "our mess up allowed players to make something crazy" territory. They never ban for this sort of thing.

The signal they send by not suspending exploiters would be terrible. The sheer amount of bugged items produced (seen in trade/chat/streams) shows the disregard for rules already within the player base. It is super important that they take a hard stance against such behavior. Anyone using this beastcraft more than once(to create clearly unintended items) needs to get put on pause until end of season. Those that did it multiple times and sold/stored on alts deserves longer suspensions.

Please GGG make it clear that you don't accept these actions.

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arknath wrote:

The signal they send by not suspending exploiters would be terrible. The sheer amount of bugged items produced (seen in trade/chat/streams) shows the disregard for rules already within the player base. It is super important that they take a hard stance against such behavior. Anyone using this beastcraft more than once(to create clearly unintended items) needs to get put on pause until end of season. Those that did it multiple times and sold/stored on alts deserves longer suspensions.

Please GGG make it clear that you don't accept these actions.

So the problem here is that POE traditionally has had many hidden mechanics which are not against the rules.

They commonly release things with "figure it out" mentality

I don't even know the specifics of this exploit but it sounds like two different crafting items that both do explicitly force 6s 6L onto items interacted in a way that bypassed the socket limit.

Its a plausible argument that this could be a hidden mechanic. For example:

Hypothetically If someone had found that selling a level 20 gem with a single GCP gave back a 20 quality gem and then proceeded to sell 20 quality gems for huge profits while no one else knew the secret. You might reasonably say that person is exploiting a bug. Except they just used an unknown mechanism that GGG never told anyone existed.

Anyone remember when they found one guild making all the +1 gems +2 gems bows? GGG was even excited about it publicly as I recall. One group was making all of them because they knew how to deterministically force them.

Anyway this is all just me playing devils advocate I can intuitively tell you they 99.9% would never put a hidden system in the game that does this specific thing. But I can also tell you they're never banning anyone over it when they foster their own "figure it out" grey areas.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3087148/page/1

"If you uncover an exploit in Path of Exile and abuse it for your benefit, we will ban you."

Either they meant it or they didn't. Either the ToS means something or it doesn't. It's an exploit, it was exploited, items should be fixed and people banned (for the league). There's nothing to argue.

However, since the exploit happened in standard too, the items created by this exploit in standard should be fixed too, but whether a temporary ban should be handed is debatable.

Banning cheaters is only what companies who care about their game do.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Either the ToS means something or it doesn't.

The Terms of Use just says GGG can terminate your license and your account for basically anything they want at any time. It doesn't outlaw crafting bugged items, and it doesn't obligate GGG to ban people who do. So there is no "or it doesn't [mean something]". GGG are not somehow bound by the Terms to ban anyone.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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On the contrary, the law can absolutely make the ToS mean nothing, but that's not the point.

The point is, they made a statement regarding this very issue and how to handle it. If they back track, not only it encourages to act in bad faith towards the ToS, it makes the ToS and it's "intentions" pointless by proxy.

Can't adapt, modify, reproduce, automate, gather data, reverse engineer nor perform outside game actions, but you can exploit it?

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Can't adapt, modify, reproduce, automate, gather data, reverse engineer nor perform outside game actions, but you can exploit it?

Yes, precisely. Especially since "exploit" is not a well-defined term here. The creation and use of these items simply is not contravention of the Terms of Use. I'm not here to say that's good, or bad. It's just the truth.

(To be clear, as I said earlier, that doesn't mean you can't get in trouble for it; I'm not here arguing in favour of using these items. That's a different question.)

At no point does the Terms of Use become "pointless". It always has a point, it's just that that point is not to support your or my ideas of fairness or justice.

If GGG will not do anything about abuse exploits then better remove or update ToS.Exploiters are not afraid anymore since there are no risk on doing it.

Bugs are normal in all games and they are fixable but abusive players should be penalized.