Necropolis is the 2nd the worst retention League of all time: GGG can't understand their limits
|
I don't have that many problems with this league as others seems to have but some things were definitely not thought through well. Forced league mechanic can't ever be a good thing. I personally don't mind allflames but it should have been voluntary for sure. Always lots of people will be pissed that they have to do something which they do not enjoy or do not want to do. And it all could have been easily avoided if you could for example switch lantern off and play map without additional mods. Everyone could have been happy.
What I don't like is method of necropolis crafting. It takes too much effort and time to set it up. I am crafting because you can really get some nice things done with it for very little investment, but it takes ages to prepare. I did yesterday 6 explicts (4 fractured) bow with 200% chance for additional item. Farmed 100% of corpses myself. But just planning layout to get exactly what you want with corpses you have available took me like 2 hours and then to set it up in actual graveyard another half an hour maybe even hour more. Then you hit craft button and still you get 2 out of 3 pieces of crap with fractured mod which had bellow 1% chance to appear. And what sucks as well is you have to keep lots of corpses which are not stackable and basically filling up almost all of my free space and extra tabs. One big inventory chaos. If this whole process was easier, better manageable and not so time consuming in planning/preparation phase it would be pretty great beacause it does give everyone option to craft something which they could not afford otherwise - like for example i did not have 40D for bow which i crafted. Also t17s are just a spit in the face of regular player. Bosses are so stupidly tough that unless you have true bossing build you must feel like GGG is giving you a finger. That would not be a problem for me if there was not locked 5th map slot behind it - this is in my view stupidest decision of them all. Plus they succesfully completely killed syndicate which is useless AF now. Other than this few things i like this league... xD |
|
|
All the changes they made are absolutely horrible. The bossing is gone, theone thing that i enjoyed in the game, now you pay you 10 div entrance fee for Maven and pray.
T17 have so many imbalanced mods that it is insane how they actually went life with those being corrupted. I have no Idea who though that having T17 being so much rarer than the previous guardian maps will be ok, this is absolutely horrible, you farm for days to build some quantintity of T17 maps and then you f go through tehm for 1 day. the league for me is 2/10 or 3/10, if I am generous. 1 more league of those and I will just retire from playign POE until POE2 comes |
|
" Do not forget, BOSSING - Horrible |
|
|
I can't wait for this dysfunctional league with its asinine corpse boxes to end.
|
|
" This league has a great potential... To not end well.  |
|
|
Who makes a post trashing the league when everyone can see the league is doing better than most other leagues? Case in point: https://poedb.tw/us/League#ConcurrentPlayers
 TOP 4 out of the past 8 leagues by the end of the first week.  TOP 5 out of the past 35 leagues by the end of the first week. --- Honestly, GGG needs to sit down with a doctor and an economist and do a panel with all these streamers / influencers. Why a doctor and an economist? Both are trained on how to analyze charts, data, and have sufficient knowledge of human behavior to expel the myth that "player retention drops because league is bad". Also, those are two professions found everywhere xD so there is no excuse for finding a competent one. This deeply rooted misconception that "player retention" means "league = bad" is probably the most harmful thing for player retention. Why? They basically invent data out of thin air and suggest players they should quit or not play because "player retention is going down, therefor league is bad". UNLESS, there is an actual survey that asks players: "WHY DID YOU ST/OP PLAYING THIS LEAGUE" nobody on this earth can assume it's because "league = bad". The economy is not "f'ed up". It's affordable. When the in-game economy is affordable, players buy less RMT. That's why we are seeing so much misinformation. It happens every league that's actually good for the player. Remember Crucible? remember Harvest? Cheers! Enjoy the league guys... it's literally good. Last edited by BlackMarshes212#1072 on Apr 23, 2024, 3:37:32 PM
|
|
|
This thread is an object lesson in how to intentionally view statistical data in the best possible way to reflect your bias.
And not just that but on both sides of an opposing argument LOL. On one side (we'll call it "Camp A") we have: cherry picking a relative difference comparison of two numbers who's magnitude are not necessarily related at all. To arrive at the conclusion that something is bad. On the opposite side or "Camp B" we have: cherry picking a absolute difference comparison of two numbers who's magnitude are not necessarily related at all. To arrive at the conclusion that something is good. No seriously, both sides chose different start and end points to "value" as data and did exactly the operation that is MOST SELF SERVING by comparing different arbitrary time intervals or absolute versus relative delta so each could assert opposite conclusions. Here's what I see as the reality: 1. Many leagues start out poorly or... bigly... due to other games, interests, time of year, covid swol, better looking marketing. So peak numbers mean absolutely nothing concrete at all and almost always have a confounding number of variables. WoW expansions, poor LOOKING league mechanic (largly poor impression), Covid being some big ones but the subtle ones are there as well. 2. The difference between the least well received modern leagues and the most well received is usually only thousands of concurrent players. for example a few weeks into a league there might be 40k playing a "bad league" while there's 51k playing "good league", for a difference that strikes me as pretty unimportant for the purposes of validating subjective preferences. Surely GGG can measure that difference monetarily but it makes essentially no difference to players unless they like looking at graphs to seek emotional validation. Certainly 35k versus 46K playing is NOT "DEAD LEAGUE" compared to "BESTEST EVAR". 3. quite a few "bad leagues" have pretty flat retention (comparing the velocity of the curve). That is to say regardless of how many players were excited or enticed to play the league in absolute numbers, those who did play stuck around longer on average. Then there's the crazy anomaly of Affliction league which was both big and had the flattest retention curve (at a glance). It has to be asked in fairness: how many players got burned out and gave this league a pass or didn't keep playing due to that? Circling back to point #1 nicely. I have long since concluded that GGG has become well aware of all of these but especially point #3 and this is why the last couple years GGG has shipped "dopamine fast" and "crafting leagues" usually alternating with "loot pinata" leagues. SO all this hand wringing trying to prove to GGG that your hatred for X league is justified by your cooking formulation of the numbers while the opposing view uses the same numbers with their own cooking preference to conclude the exact opposite is all just sound and fury signifying nothing. GGG has found a solid earning model that keeps differing customer types who like differing things in a league perhaps alternating but still mostly coming back to try the next one. Personally I'm a crafting league guy and this league so far is a Banger I don't give any fucks that only 35k and not 45k are playing it. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4. If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. Last edited by alhazred70#2994 on Apr 23, 2024, 4:47:42 PM
|
|
" Nice try. Except, THE GRAPH IS SELF EXPLANATORY. Nobody in their right mind can tell me this league's line is the "SECOND WORST". Because it would look like this:   Last edited by BlackMarshes212#1072 on Apr 23, 2024, 4:54:12 PM
|
|
|
I'm going to have to assume you didn't understand what I wrote so I'll move on. its really annoying that you just re-posted the same thing that you've posted already in this thread as well as elsewere.
It's interesting also that I never specified or quoted you but you chose to adopt insult. Edit: you've edited some more actual argument into your last post so I will as well: the reason they argue that this league is 2nd worst is that they're doing a relative difference comparison that factors in the peak number of players. They are also including relatively up to date concurrency data. The reason why you argue that its "top 4" is because you cherry pick the first week and are actively ignoring the current data. Also you're choosing to do an absolute comparison which because most past leagues of POE just naturally had less players over many years of the games growth means you get to say things like "top 5 in the first week" And finally for your self administered coup de grace: In the graph with the yellow "expected 2nd worst" vector if you would kindly follow the blue Necropolis graph line FROM WEEK ONE and trace it all the way down to day 25-26 could you please describe to the forum what you see mere pixels from your yellow plot line? Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4. If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. Last edited by alhazred70#2994 on Apr 23, 2024, 5:31:01 PM
|
|
" Post title: Necropolis is the 2nd the worst retention League of all time: GGG can't understand their limits" (SIC). It's literally impossible to get to that conclusion / title. Literally. You would have to fake data in order to get to that. Here you go (faked data): Follow the actual necropolis line with 8 or 35 and it will never be "the 2nd worst retention league of all time" (SIC). That's neither cherry picking nor "picking a absolute difference" nor "picking a relative difference comparison", nor "bias", nor "SELF SERVING". Me saying that it's absurd how this long rooted misconception is doing a lot of harm and GGG needs to bring actual experts to dispel this myth... Sigh... You kinda hinted at me on point No. 1 and then fail to come to a proper conclusion. The only thing that could resemble a conclusion is sandwiched between two statements. Which makes a lot of people that care about grammar grimace. You DID add something new to the conversation which is this:
Spoiler
"GGG has found a solid earning model that keeps differing customer types who like differing things in a league perhaps alternating but still mostly coming back to try the next one".
Which is true. Brand loyalty is high. Finally, your last statement:
Spoiler
"Personally I'm a crafting league guy and this league so far is a Banger I don't give any f%# that only 35k and not 45k are playing it."
That's GREAT! but at the same time you cannot deny it's annoying as hell to have people that can't even read a graph much less understand basic economic principles spread misinformation through all social media. Then you get zombies / parrots repeating that misinformation over and over and over. At some point, someone says: "STOP, this is non-sense" which is what I've done so far here and in my post. So yes, I understood your reply completely. It was a nice try to appear centrist. Next time, you should reserve point No. 1 and No. 2 to clearly state the two sides and what made them extreme. Then, you draw your OWN centrist conclusion. I would advise against it in this case because the two sides are: information vs. misinformation. Unless, you think I've acted with malice and misinformed people and did harm with that. If that's the case, please by all means let me know so that I can fix the error or clarify the misunderstanding.  Bartender: I'd like more cappuccino on my cappuccino. |
|
