Multiple atlas trees result in less uniqueness and specialization

While I understand that many people enjoy this change and why; let's face it players always want the path of least resistance, and they don't know what is good for them or the game when it comes to designs and philosophies.

Anyway, this goes directly against the basic principle of an RPG (Role playing game), where you specialize and invest into specific content, and hence do it better than others who don't.

But now, if anyone can do anything just as well as the other guy, specialize into basically everything as well as the other guy ; because one can have multiple farming spec atlas trees that are just one click away, what is the point ? Where is the specialization ? The uniqueness of the content you're able to farm, and in return sell and earn money from within the market ?

You might as well just remove the unmaking orbs entirely, and let people respec for free... while retaining the single atlas only.

This is a trend that's been ever increasing within gaming for the past 10-15 years ; the designers start listening to whiners and ridiculous player feedback, and games become more and more casual.

Affliction followed that trend, and it was objectively the worst league of all time when compared to how the game has always been, and the core philosophies of a loot-based carrot and the stick ARPG with chase uniques and content. Absolute garbage of a mechanic, loot raining down from the sky completely removing the core aim and incentive of playing, no joy receiving any kind of item or loot from the ground, etc.
Yet so many people liked it, because they want to have access to everything easily... which they couldn't previously. Makes me want to vomit.
Add to this Valdo's boxes, reliquary keys; how items are now obtained randomly within boxes and keys.... It's stupid. It's just bad game design sorry.

All in all, I don't recognize this game and the direction it's going anymore, so this is my last post on these forums (because the developers obviously don't read it, and because I'm tired of reading stupid opinions). Do whatever you want, listen to the casuals and whiners, make the game easier, make everyone be able to do anything ; make all the content attainable by those who have 3 wives 11 kids and 3 jobs.

I think the game designers have lost the core vision that made the game what it is today, and have been listening to players who have absolutely no clue when it comes to core game design principles and philosophies.

Path of Exile has been my main game and incredibly fun from 2013 to 2022, but it's been changing catering to casuals more and more. Nowadays I find myself having more fun playing Diablo 2, which says a lot.

GG

You have to be trolling.

remember, 90% of the other players want changes too.

How does multiple atlas trees = LESS uniqueness and specialization lol?

It literally ENABLES uniqueness and specialization that we COULDN'T do before because we were "locked" into one tree.

That's like saying adding extra skill gems results in less uniqueness and specialization because people will always choose the most powerful skill available.

Uh......that's just not true.



You seem to be trying to make a DIFFERENT argument, but articulating it rather poorly. What this change DOES do is make your individual choices on your atlas tree less "important". But that has nothing to do with uniqueness or specialization.

Think about it, at an incredibly basic level:
Atlas Tree 1: Specialized in right side, unique layout of mechanics
Atlas Tree 2: Specialized in left side, completely different unique layout of mechanics

Previously, NO specialization, NO uniqueness.

Unless for some weird reason....you are comparing YOUR atlas tree to other peoples which doesn't make any sense because they don't USE your atlas tree.

And for the record: uniqueness is ALREADY a total "myth" in PoE. I could make an entire <insert skill name> build from scratch, following no guides and with no input from others. I can GUARANTEE that my final build is going to look eerily similar to....90% of all the other builds using that skill which, in turn, look eerily similar to 90% of all builds using that DAMAGE type.

Same thing with Atlas Trees: I could choose my absolute favorite mechanics to spec into totally based on my own experience (as you should). I would bet money that my tree matches a hefty percentage of ALL other trees.

True uniqueness is almost exclusively found in gimmicky builds and basically nowhere else.

i kind of see what the op is saying and i agree to some extent, and i think the devs agree because they originally made the tree a single tree with limited points for that reason.

but when you listen to mark talk in the interview about why he made these changes it doesnt come from bending to casuals who are crying for more stuff etc, he plays the game a lot himself and genuinely found it frustrating wanting to play different content and needing to do a full respec etc, this came from his own experience of playing characters to level 100 in leagues. and you know what? ive felt like that too, i spec for something and im running it, farming essences and jun in lowball maps atm in standard to get 28% hillock crafts... but then you want to play some high level maps for xp with a proper character and feel like you cant because ur not specced for it on the tree.





allowing us to specialise in the content is great because it lets us tailor the game to how we want to play, it provides opportunity costs, you have to make decisions, but these things become good and bad because by specialising you tailored the game to how you wanted to play yesterday and today u want to do something else and now you cant without an entire headache. so u significantly narrow the content most people are playing which makes the game feel less diverse...





theres good things and bad things about it. so the question is, with the amount of passives that are there, if you give someone 2 trees can they just "get everything" and render the entire idea of having a tree to specialise in meaningless?

Id argue no. how many trees would you need to completely invalidate even having a tree? cause thats where its too much. how many trees would you need to not feel like you have to respec your entire tree regularly just to play a engaging variety of content and strats? because that keeps the game feeling fresh and functional.





i felt like they shouldnt give us a new atlas per character because it would lead to just silly behaviours (i still stand by that) and i felt like multiple trees was defeating the point of a tree. but when mark announced it i instantly felt a sense of relief and then excitement at being able to create 3 different playing strats and switch between them at will. so maybe the right choice here was a half way point of a couple of trees and maybe 3 is exactly the right amount where theres still meaning to the tree but also a sense of freedom to play all the content you want to play week by week?

i think so, im sold on it.

+1 to op

This is not progress its a step backwards.

I'm going to be treating them as what I actually wanted, which is a seperate tree per character. At least for three characters, which I expect will be fine since although I start plenty of characters each league, usually only about two of them make it to maps.

I more or less agree with the criticism otherwise though. I prefer when skill trees are about permanency. You're making choices on what not to have as much as what to have.

OP bases their claim on it being a role playing game but this game allows you to play multiple characters so the devs had to address the cumbersomeness/cost of having to swap every time you swap to a different character type (not all specs clear the same content). The other solution would be to have a separate tree for each character but that opens up for people to make characters just to open maps for their other characters which is strictly a worse system.

The changes are therefore both good and correct both for a role playing aspect and a game aspect. Sorry OP, you're just wrong here.

i am super stoked to have 1 tree for map sustain, 1 tree for content i want to farm, and 1 tree for screwing around with.

this change is ONLY good.

"

Thror2k5 wrote:

i am super stoked to have 1 tree for map sustain, 1 tree for content i want to farm, and 1 tree for screwing around with.

this change is ONLY good.

Exactly my point, players don't know what's good for them or the overall long-term health of a game. You want it, because it eliminates short-term friction and annoyance, I get it. I also find it annoying to respec, spend unmaking orbs and be tied to just one atlas tree. But it's a necessary evil.

You WANT more EASE and QOL; and no doubt this change will feel good : AT FIRST.
But sadly at the expense of something you can't, or aren't yet able to perceive.

By making this change, one's atlas spec (and now specs) are simply less valuable. Their value and place within a league economy, or even worse, within ones psyche (the fantasy you have in your mind of a certain farming strategy you aspire to attain, plan, goal or character trajectory) are immensely devalued.
Hence character immersion is devalued, the atlas itself and its nodes are devalued, the different league mechanics are devalued.
Everything is more attainable, every farming strategy is more attainable, players are able to try their hand at everything.

In the end, there will be less overall long term goals, less long term farming goals, less long term characters planned within a given league; which in turns means less fun, and therefore less player retention.

It's basic game design coupled with human psychology ; and I'm not re-inventing anything, all this has already been proved and demonstrated within so many other games multiple times in the past.

History repeats itself.