Is melee good now?
" hes also using a near 900 pds 2 hander playing a blow half the screen up with 1 click skill on a str char and yet hes running his maps blue + skipping the league mechanic. hes farming elder guardians right now. hes running the maps white with 4 chisels. that says something about the amount of incoming damage. its not that he cant do those maps rare, its obviously just too much of a risk vs the reward. hes intentionally scouring the maps. thats not even a melee thing, hes playing a build thats no more at risk that a spell or bow build because hes charging through with half screen aoe. its just an insane amount of incoming damage thing that then has knock on implications for anyone who actually has to stand and trade blows with monsters. " mate splitting steel is a projectile attack. its not melee and its certainly not toe to toe melee. did you miss the bit where i said i was trying a toe to toe melee build? i didnt put the build together because i thought it would be a good build. i put it together from gear in my stash to run a couple of maps and see just how bad it was. i dont hide my characters youre free to go look through them if youre under the impression im ignorant of the fact that melee builds that clear half the screen from outside of melee range work. " m8 it used to be shit, its now unplayable sid, its not even bad its transcended bad into not even viable in the most basic sense. basic blue skeletons were chunking me for 4k es with their auto attacks on maps with no damage mods worth talking about. its actually crazy how much damage stuff does the moment you get into toe to toe range with it now. dudes playing steel, you could load spec throw, spec shield, fb, gyre, lash, reave, lacerate, cleave, anything where you hit mobs outside of melee range with a 1h melee weapon and you could run those defences all day, put in 100 maps run them carelessly and never die once. " that viper strike character - ailments cant be frozen, poison immune, ignores ignite - phys damage protection nope, just a double sized hp pool so equiv of a normal 4k life build with 50% phys mit. - chaos (it is now mandatory) immune - DoT protection / strong unconditional recovery immune to cb, immune to poison, immune to bleed, vaal disc - movement speed shadow, whirl blade v fast - spell suppression capped spell suppression with spellbreaker and wicked ward - fortify nope because ggg messed it up - blind (on evasion builds it is SUPER strong, highly underrated mechanic) yep - reduced crit damage taken would have gone for it with next point, but evasion so rolls down crits anyway - max res (much worse than spell supression and yet harder to get, go figure) +3 to all max resists ...but have to stand point blank so none of that matters. that build is more tanky than 80% of characters being played out there right now and none of them care because theyre outside melee range. honestly strict melee range like that used to be shit but you could play it even with budget gear, pretty much any class and defence option and while it took a year to clear a map with a terrible skill like that could do it. ci, ll, mom, armour, evasion, block, dodge, hybrids, any combo of anything if you had a decent bit of it they were all fine. shadow is literally the poison claw evasion energy shield character. im remember people for so long saying that didnt work, it clearly did it was just slow. well its an absolute mess now. i knew those skills were lagging far far behind, but i didnt realise just how atrocious they are now. i think if people are waiting for that style of melee to be 'fixed'... just give it up, its over. its not even damage now for those builds, the game hasnt just left them sub optimal, its left them actually useless. its been years since ive actually tried a style like that to see where its at. i think im just writing them off for good now. maybe in poe2 we can revisit and see whats up. i just turned on nugis stream, ive been watching for less than 2 minutes and hes died twice running the league mechanic in rare maps. the guys got 9 figure projectile dps btw lol. can you imagine trying to run viper strike or double strike in there with 'normal player' gear? jesus. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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melee? what melee?
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https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2037371 Vouch Mercenaries veiled crafting all service all crafts mods Mercenaries SC master craft service Mercenaries SC craft mod! Veiled crafting Service Settlers craft PM: TreeOfDead |
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" Dude, your character has ZERO, i repeat 0,00000 recovery. As a "toe to toe" build you will get hit at least once every 1 second even with evasion, never mind 2 seconds. Your ES recharge might as well not exist. All those fancy defense layers are worthless because as long as something does >0 damage to you it's going to kill you in time, even stuff hitting for 500 damage will kill you in less than 20 hits which is like nothing with POEs mob density. This is a prime example of a a complete shitshow of a build being used to force a point that isn't there. Viperstrike is a perfectly fine skill but you have to freaking build for it, yes, imagine that. Slapping it on some zero recovery caster build and then being surprised it doesn't work like seriously -.- I can't even put into words how incredibly stupid this example is because some mod would go and delete it if i tried. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Dec 20, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
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" its a proj attack that you play while standing on boss cause of shotgun... should probably look more into the build than just the first skill |
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" its es recharge wasnt on 2 seconds, it was below 1 second and if it starts it never stops. it had vaal discipline, conc ground with zealots oath and spell breaker. it doesnt have 0 recovery. it had about 18 million dps stuff didnt exist for any length of time and was still chunking for 50% of its es with 1 hit, which would be 50% of a life chars hp who had a coil and taste of hate up. its not like it stands there and has a long fight where its getting hit 20 times, it would survive a long fight like that, the problem is massive amounts of damage in a tiny window, little nothing mobs doing 4k damage per hit. 500 damage 20 times youd just stand there for 10 of them then take 1 step to the side and that <second gap your es would be back to full and your unkillable for 4 seconds with ward. builds like that actually have o worries about chip damage like youre describing. its high small quantity damage that was the issue, 1 or 2 hits in under a second which would completely negate pots and leech too. evasion builds always had the problem of having 4-5k life and evasion, and they get 1 or 2 shot. so you would fix that by wearing a coil/taste or going ci which would cut the damage in half or double your life pool, which is effectively the same thing. That obviously doesnt work now because the incoming damage has effectively doubled compared to hit point totals since then. its got nothing to do with more sustain. you need to prolif the poisons and use plague bearer constantly so that you are not actually standing and fighting toe to toe. if youre gonna make this skill work to the point where its playable you make it work by removing the bit where you actually stand and fight in melee range, and when you do that these defenses would be as good or better than life evasion defences. the key isnt better sustain, its removing the need to sustain by removing the bit where you are actually playing melee like this and instead you are basically like an RF + ignite prolif build. thats how you fix all melee, you make it like ignite, like rf, freeze pulse, ice spear, firestorm, you stop people standing there doublestriking mobs while getting punched in the face and you make them big explosive skills that kill a pack of 8 mobs before more than 1 of them can engage you point blank. thats what everyones doing, ive been doing it so long i didnt even realise just how stupid the damage has got when you put yourself in a situation where you have to step to each mob individually. im fine with that, thats how all good melee skills play and its fun. but it is what it is. anyone who thinks melee has to be up close trading punches, yeah, im not even gonna argue with those people that its worth their time trying to make it work any more. just go aoe or forget it. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" yeah you stand on the boss with freeze pulse or flame surge or kb too. its not the boss you worry about when it comes to getting close. i have played that skill before, im aware what it is. edit: i see what ur doing with you build btw. armour + evasion with a champion using the steel skills. you have an ar + ev chest, 4g2r. i played those skills when they first came out and did the same thing, thats the chest i used. i first played a dual weild armour + evasion hybrid melee character when they changed the ranger start and changed the evasion formula in 2013. i rolled a dual dagger ranger, reave wasnt in the game yet you have to play double strike + dual strike crit. i tried evasion but didnt fully trust it, i suspected youd get 1 shot or get mega chunked for half your life and be forced out of combat or overwhelmed, and thats exactly what happened. but the entropy was really interesting. so i used a generals brigandine i had, grace + determination and goal was to get enough armour + endurance on the rnger that a boss like kole couldnt 1 shot me and magic/rare mobs couldnt put me in the red, and then stack evasion from there to give my recovery windows between getting hit to get back to full. merciless kole in lunaris would miss the evasion character a few times then 1 shot it, if i switched to armour it would hit but then hit and hit and the character would die in about the same amount of time. but evasion + armour together he would miss, miss, then hit, but you would survive the hit and during the down time of the next 2 misses your life regen would heal you. so you could afk merciless kole for an hour and still find yourself at 100% hp with a hybrid defense where taking iron reflexes or just using evasion you would die in seconds. so i went and got a proper dragon scale, not that one, a way older one when you had to chose the flat armour or evasion roll. i had flat armour, % ar + ev and life as the 3 prefixes then 3 resists. this sword mirrored off ventor who was a big crafter back then and id play sword ar + ev hybrid melee ranger. this is 10 years ago, i wasnt aware of anyone else at the time who thought keeping both ar and ev together was a good idea. every time id see advice it was pick one or the other, get iron reflexes or acrobatics. im not unaware of the kind of build you are playing, ive been playing the evolution of that build architype since open beta, i know its a strong. even my lab juggernaught has evasion, i play it hybrid, i have the double body armour node with an armour chest and then i run grace. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :) Last edited by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Dec 20, 2023, 1:52:50 PM
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