Give Steel(Splitting/Shattering/Lancing) Skills Melee Tag

And work with Multistrike, pretty much how Lightning Strike and Frost Blade works. Thanks.

E1:The Steel skills can easily be reworked to give a % of the melee tag into the projectiles, the same as spell damage affects dot damage, as example.

The issue is not logic, because i can simply say "nearby" and neither of us will ever know which nearby i mean. It's simply a case of "if they want it or not".

E2:Just remove shotgunning from returning projectiles or nerf heavily the amount of projectiles available (from tattoos specially), projectiles are busted enough as it is.

Lightning Strike and Frost Blades have the melee tag because the skills have a melee component, by which I mean an aspect which deals melee damage.

100% of the damage dealt by Lancing Steel et all is projectile damage, so giving them a melee tag makes zero sense.

I'm not even gonna argue how the character is swinging their melee weapon to produce the projectile, so giving it a melee tag completely makes sense, as opposed to using a bow as a prop to make knives to swing around you and THAT somehow makes more sense.

Lightning Strike and Frost Blades have melee strike components because they were given melee strike components and could just as easily be removed because they visually and virtually work the same as the Steel Gems. They just don't do it because it would make them dead skills, just as the Steel Gems.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

I'm not even gonna argue how the character is swinging their melee weapon to produce the projectile, so giving it a melee tag completely makes sense, as opposed to using a bow as a prop to make knives to swing around you and THAT somehow makes more sense.

Lightning Strike and Frost Blades have melee strike components because they were given melee strike components and could just as easily be removed because they visually and virtually work the same as the Steel Gems. They just don't do it because it would make them dead skills, just as the Steel Gems.

I feel like you sort of missed the point that he was making...regardless of how it is produced (weapon or otherwise), the DAMAGE of the steel skills is 100% projectile. It really has nothing to do with the weapon itself and the comparison to using a bow doesn't really apply in this case.

Unlike the examples of Frost Blades and Lightning Strike which, as you correctly identified, were MADE to have a melee component: that is, HITTING the enemy with the weapon at close range to create the projectiles. Steel skills were NOT made this way...they are NOT melee skills. In fact, I think that is part of the reason Steel skills were created in the way that they were: to be non-melee non-bow/wand projectile skills.

Look at it this way: if I am shattering my own weapon and throwing those shards at the enemy...is that melee? Just because my weapon happens to be a sword? Why isn't spectral throw melee when it REQUIRES a melee weapon? What about cobra lash? etc.

The Steel skills can easily be reworked to give a % of the melee tag into the projectiles, the same as spell damage affects dot damage, as example.

The issue is not logic, because i can simply say "nearby" and neither of us will ever know which nearby i mean. It's simply a case of "if they want it or not".

I feel like getting caught up in thematic distinctions is silly.

Skills that are pretty lame can use help and when they swing a melee weapon and require a melee weapon, one way you could give them help is by expanding how they can scale a little. Melee tags on any skill that has melee mechanics is one way (melee close range danger (opportunity cost), lower damage because of time to close gaps) so they probably should have the tag.

That said IMO the steel skills are pretty "lame". Mostly due to monster health creep and almost everything in the bottom left of the tree having to pay far too much opportunity cost to compete with better scaling things (spells). Their biggest problems are they are overly curated skills (actual creative room to make them good is limited mechanically) that don't compete with Molten Strike and Lightning strike because those two skills have more scaling opportunity or more mechanical advantage or both (mostly not having to do with melee tag) or just better at a baseline.

Also some skills got hit harder by the across the board support gem nerfs way back in expedition, I feel like steel skills got hit pretty hard considering proj supports often have a negative damage multi and this compounds the worsened math from said nerf.

Tbh though I feel like a wide swath of skills that aren't Spell/Minion/Bow are permanently trash tier since that rather poorly thought out blanket nerf, How seasoned designers like GGG didn't immediately realize they were dumping a bunch of borderline low use case skills into a landfill with that move is puzzling. GGG definitely has some blind spots (not knowing what Time to live design is for example) but this one is honestly unlike them. It had the feel of rushed last minute game design that they would correct for later.

Only the later part never came; and so we still have a wide section of skills that are dramatically below the "juice is worth the squeeze" performance floor.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

The Steel skills can easily be reworked to give a % of the melee tag into the projectiles, the same as spell damage affects dot damage, as example.

The issue is not logic, because i can simply say "nearby" and neither of us will ever know which nearby i mean. It's simply a case of "if they want it or not".

It would be a little more than that. The steel skills fire out instantly like any other projectile but those other skills you mentioned have a "strike" animation where the character has to slam the ground before the effect happens.

I agree the steel skills are in a really bad spot but to add a melee tag to them would require a wholesale rework of all the skills. Which is probably warranted honestly.

Its not about thematics, nor is it about simply "buffing" skills. That is a separate argument.

It's about HOW the skill currently operates. And steel skills CURRENTLY have zero melee operations. A melee tag makes NO SENSE. Say what you will about PoE balance...their tagging tends to be pretty gosh darn consistent and predictable.

The argument was NOT to change the whole working of the skill, the OP was specifically asking for the "melee" tag to be added to a non-melee skill. As I pointed out, this creates issues as there are a few other non-steel, non-melee, melee-weapon using skills that were totally unmentioned (and likely not even considered) by the OP.

Again, it simply does not make sense. Not talking about dispelling the sense of realism, not talking about fantasy, not talking about anything cerebral like that. I'm talking PURELY from the straight up function of the skill: it simply DOES NOT have a melee component for the tag (as the skills currently stand). It is a 100% ranged skill that just happens to be limited to melee weapon usage. But the weapon itself is NOT being used as a melee weapon.

TL/DR: it is not as simple as just adding a tag. What you truly want is a total rework of the skill itself. THAT I can get behind...but adding a tag doesn't fit.

**I might even argue: change the SUPPORT skill, not the steel skill. Have multistrike and things work with "skills that require melee weapons". Or even more limited "melee skills, or skills that require an Axe, Sword, or Mace".

OR OR OR

ADD a new tag: steel. Pick and choose the supports that get the "steel" tag. Throw some steel love onto the passive tree with "steel" wheels and masteries.

Sure why not.

While they are at it why not remove the distinction between spells, attacks, and traps/mines.

Then

Collapse specific supports into stuff like faster action speed, echo, that kind of thing. Keep cool support ideas like fist of war or unleash, but make all the generic conversion, attack and cast speed, increased damage, etc available to all skill gems.

The tagging system leaves a lot to be desired. At some level it isnt clear visual what scales what and why, especially with weapon mods being global or local. A whole different topic of discussion but tangentially related to the visual disconnect of steel skills not being melee despite looking melee. The visual design of poe is a hot mess.

As it is now the system is really showing its age. But they ain't going to do anything this big until poe2, which looks bad imo.

Steel skills are everything but 'dead skills'. people not playing them is one thing, their effectiveness in various scenarios is the other


that idiocy of 'returning projectiles' alone made them INSANE, and to be frank they never were bad in the first place


they have both much better mechanics AND numbers compared to 'regular' melee skills. the only thing they would need 'melee tag' is Fortify, because other than that - what you want is a downgrade