Is it just me or is sadism support....just a bit broken on arrival?

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

A literal lvl1 naked Marauder with Exquisite Blade T3 AS and Blood Rage with 3 frenzy charges has 1.52 aps, which is enough to cap bleed hits (if you always bleed, bleed is 5 seconds, 1/4 = 1.25 seconds just to prove a point) while attacking, which is the point of the gem if you try to use it. Practically the same with Marauder and Spine Bow.

So yes, duration is irrelevant (for bleeds, while attacking).

Math is slightly off. 5 x .56 x .21 = .59 ish or 1.7+ attacks per second.

You are also forgetting this likely isn't going to be the ONLY source of "less duration" for any ailment build. Ex: Swift Affliction also applies 25% less duration. Slam skills and other melee skills also have speed penalties too.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

In a fully fleshed out speed build, the equation simplifies to 80% more damage: that is undeniably true.

Doubt that.

Given the costs it takes to turn Sadism into a 80% multi and the fact that you could have invested elsewhere to achieve a similar or even better dmg multi Im fairly sure its close to a zero sum game dmg-wise but it enables a new playstyle.

The opportunity costs are high and cant be ignored.

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Orbaal wrote:

Doubt that.

Given the costs it takes to turn Sadism into a 80% multi and the fact that you could have invested elsewhere to achieve a similar or even better dmg multi Im fairly sure its close to a zero sum game dmg-wise but it enables a new playstyle.

The opportunity costs are high and cant be ignored.

I was only talking PURELY by the numbers. If you have met the speed requirements, the gem gives 80% more multi. That is fact. If you haven't met the speed requirement, the gem generally gives a nerf to your damage.

All the rest of the costs of creating such a build speak to whether the 80% was WORTH it or not lol.

None is dumb enough, well, i guess some will be dumb enough to drive the duration that low without the proper attack speed and then complain the gem sucks.

And Chance to Bleed would be better than Swift Affliction without capping your knees for no good reason.

Also, with the same setup you get from the box, Bladestorm, Multistrike you have 2.15aps.

If anything, you proved people will miscalculate it.

^you underestimate the average player my friend! Especially the players that have gotten used to the old archetype that Orbaal described. They will try to build the same way, slap this gem on, and not be able to figure out why they are dealing less damage.

Someone with a puncture build (although with its 8 seconds its easier...) from 3.21 that simply swaps 1 gem out for this one, thinking it'll give them 80% more is LIKELY not correct. Especially if they focused on a physical damage bow over a SPEED physical damage bow because Puncture builds previously did not require speed rolls, except now they would.


Re: Bladestorm, yes but see what you are doing....you are changing the build. That is precisely the point of these support gems. To change the builds! More focused on speed in the form of faster skills.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I was only talking PURELY by the numbers. If you have met the speed requirements, the gem gives 80% more multi. That is fact. If you haven't met the speed requirement, the gem generally gives a nerf to your damage.

Im aware and thats all fine.
Im just pointing out that this isnt how the game plays out.

If you have to move and cant attack all the time, this doesnt apply for obvious reasons. After you did move, you have to ramp the dmg up again just like poison builds.

This cant really be calculated, which is likely why you chose to ignore it and thats fine but it doesnt change the fact that simply meeting the speed requirement isnt going to be enough.


It will take more than just that and the only question is - as you mentioned - how much and is it worth the effort.

The gem is definitely a massive buff to Shockwave bleed/ ignite builds, not sure if it's worth using on a more traditional snipe-puncture setup

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Re: Bladestorm, yes but see what you are doing....you are changing the build. That is precisely the point of these support gems. To change the builds! More focused on speed in the form of faster skills.

No, i've given random examples with the barest minimum and telling you it's easy to get enough, and you keep assuming shit.

Go to PoE ninja, get any puncture build there and literally any of them have 2 or more aps with 60% increased Bleeding Duration and 15% increased Duration of Ailments on Enemies, 15% increased Skill Effect Duration. Current bleed builds got a free seamless gem, and that's a fact.

I'm thinking that sadism will work well for ballista totem builds that can constantly reapply the ignite. 6 totems firing at 3+ APS, those ignites will stay up. Now the question is, which skill is optimal. I personally think pushing the limits of speed on Explosive Arrow could become insane, but it will pigon hole you into using something like a quill rain (to hit 6.5 aps). Or burning arrow, or something converted to fire damage...

Also, keep in mind that you dont have to level this gem to 20/21. If your build cannot hit the break point, dont level it beyond what you can handle.

a whole lot of POB warrior'ing in here

what happens when you stand still in POE... you die, every time your ignite or bleed drops off in a typical hit and move style you're gutting your dmg. and effectively turning your DOT archetype playstyle into a hit playstyle unless you suffer no penalty for moveing.

So GGG just buffed the shit out of Bleed bow (long duration and ranged so can shoot and move safely much more often) and EA ignite... two very strong very meta builds.

Classic GGG.

One things for sure, outside of Rage Vortex, Blade Storm or some meme Static strike ignites this support is not for melee unless they care about POB tooltips more than actual applied damage in 99% of cases. Being able to move without losing DPS is the primary reason to use Bleed or Ignite in the first place. I get that some people will love the idea of this in POB, and maybe someone who thinks they love DOT's but secretly actually loves hits, will find themselves with this gem, but to me this thing is only an enabler of a couple really mediocre things from a melee perspective and once again buffs already really strong totem and safe playstles BY A LOT. (possibly excepting Rage Vortex, but personally I can't stand how that skill feels, how it aims and then fucks off, and feels wooden and outdated).

Can you get blade trap to bleed? I'd assume so... maybe that with crimson dance. Whatever sure the gem makes you think and for that reason alone might be a success already but as someone who's eternally looking for them to buff my favorite hit and move bleed playstyle that's spent 90% of the games history in the back of the pack save for a few leagues of Elder mod semi-relevance... who's been watching near DOT cap bleed bows run away with all the buffs it didn't even need (Seriously Ensnaring Arrow was SO TONE DEAF a gem to put in without also having a melee equivalent Hamstring gem).