New drop rates and SSF

I hope it's not too much of a duplicate with other similar threads.

I read that GGG is balancing the game around the trading side of the game, and that's fair. I also know that the drop rates of everything drastically changed not too long ago. (Maybe a bit longer ago, Idk, I'm a "returning" player, meaning, I play for a few weeks every other year).

So, as an almost excusively SSF player, I wanted to play an easy whispering Ice centered build, in order to unlock the late content, maybe farm a few stuff, to be able to do unorthodox experimental builds based on the league mechanic. My way of enjoying the game, in other words.

But, I couldn't farm the divination cards in the campaign like I usually do, then I read they weren't dropping there anymore, so, I have to go to T6 to be able to drop them. Ok, another build later, I'm struggling to drop even one "the incantation" divination card, to be able to get my "easy build"... That is to say, even for a grinding game, that is a bit extreme.

I'm not here to complain, I understand things need to be as they are for the trade side of the game to keep being appealing.

My question is this: why do we need to be able to transfer from SSF to standard? It's a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Who hasn't created a character with the only purpose of transferring a divine (or exh) from SSF to trade? Meaning things have a drastically irreconcilably different values in these game modes... So why allowing transfer at all?

Because if there is no transfer possible at all, the idea of having difference balances in different game modes become possible. It would be better for everyone, I think. The dev don't have to try and resolve an unsolvable problem (ie balancing these two modes at once), the players would have an overall better experience (better balance for both worlds). I can even imagine it would be possible to reduce server strain for the SSF players (who wants to see other players in camps when you're playing solo?).

The only thing I can think about is that someone thought that SSF player wouldnt buy skins if other players weren't able to see these... And I don't think that would be the case. I buy skins for myself, not for others, and I think I'm not alone in that (but I might be mistaken, tell me in the comments.). So there is no need to push players to go to the trade league.

Or is there another reason I missed?

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Alefith wrote:

Or is there another reason I missed?

Workload?

You are asking for a balancing overhaul and maintainance as well for about 2-3% of the playerbase and not even all of those would support this idea to begin with.

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Alefith wrote:

Who hasn't created a character with the only purpose of transferring a divine (or exh) from SSF to trade?

Uh...yes, hi? If I cared about trading divines I wouldn't be playing SSF in the first place.

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Alefith wrote:

Because if there is no transfer possible at all, the idea of having difference balances in different game modes become possible. It would be better for everyone, I think. The dev don't have to try and resolve an unsolvable problem (ie balancing these two modes at once)...

I don't know that they are trying to balance these two modes at once. Standard being the regular dumping ground for everyone's old league items doesn't really scream 'balance'.

I don't care about the economy and GGG clearly does, so I'm not representative of what works for them, but if I was in their shoes I'd probably have put the transfer there just on the off chance people find themselves in the situation of "oh my friend has this game too and I'd like to keep playing this character with them, but I can't because I picked SSF when I started". Even if that only helps a tiny amount of people, no further justification would be needed as far as I'm concerned.

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Alefith wrote:

I can even imagine it would be possible to reduce server strain for the SSF players (who wants to see other players in camps when you're playing solo?).

How does disallowing character transfers mean SSF players no longer see other players in camps?

Making the drop rates of all items perfectly fit for a SSF experience might be a real challenge that requires quite a bit of work, but even just doing something like 10x drop rate for currency and divination cards is almost no work at all and would be a tremendous improvement to the SSF experience for those who choose it not to prolong the game but to entirely avoid the mess that is trading.

What GGG is really afraid of, and why they probably won't do anything like 10x currency, is that players will grow accustomed to this mode and feel terrible if they ever go back to the trade-enabled modes. In a sense they are right, as many would probably greatly prefer the increased loot in exchange for not having to interact with trading, which might in turn hurt the trade economy due to loss of players.

I love GGG, but I think that their unwillingness to make a proper alternative to trade reveals a certain lack of faith in their own vision.

You play on the same server everyone does, its just physically impossible to have 2 different drop rates for trade and ssf. SSF is and always will be self imposed handicap.

The honest reason is because Chris LOVES trade. It's one of his core foundations of the game and everything is built around that.

Having characters locked into SSF mode with custom drop rates is a simple matter and could be done in a day. It'll never happen though because as you rightly pointed out, people that engaged in that mode would then resent playing the public mode that strangles their drops.

As for drop rates, these are continually tweaked on the back end, including mid league, we just don't hear about it. There was a significant rework a few leagues back though so that to see any reasonable drops you have to leverage all the tools the game has.

You can't just Alc and go and expect loot to drop in maps anymore. You'll see more currency in a Heist than an Alc'd map. Delve gets you better drops too. To get anything descent out of a map these days you need to chisel, Alc, add scarabs, ensure you have some mechanic that gives you extra mobs and anything else you can do to increase density. Just playing the base game these days is like trying to farm the desert.

GGG are unfortunately stuck in the Developer Hubris that more is better, and since they spent time developing all these leagues, you better engage with them. Good game design encourages the player to engage with a mechanic because it's fun. Poor game design forces the player to engage with a mechanic by punishing them if they don't. "Play the game our way, or else".

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

You can't just Alc and go and expect loot to drop in maps anymore. You'll see more currency in a Heist than an Alc'd map. Delve gets you better drops too. To get anything descent out of a map these days you need to chisel, Alc, add scarabs, ensure you have some mechanic that gives you extra mobs and anything else you can do to increase density. Just playing the base game these days is like trying to farm the desert.

GGG are unfortunately stuck in the Developer Hubris that more is better, and since they spent time developing all these leagues, you better engage with them. Good game design encourages the player to engage with a mechanic because it's fun. Poor game design forces the player to engage with a mechanic by punishing them if they don't. "Play the game our way, or else".

first thanks for confirming what my impression with the game was.

secondly, let's hope they'll get out of this with the transition to poe2^^

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kuciol wrote:

You play on the same server everyone does, its just physically impossible to have 2 different drop rates for trade and ssf. SSF is and always will be self imposed handicap.

I don't think so. Ruthless does have different drop rates.

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Alefith wrote:

Who hasn't created a character with the only purpose of transferring a divine (or exh) from SSF to trade

I can honestly say I have never even had the slightest urge to do that.

As a long time group SSF player I can say that even in a group setting the lowered drop rates were noticeable. Granted, our group is only 3.5 people (one doesn't play much)...it still feels pretty bad to try to target farm cards and never get a full set only to have to do heist as stacked decks have a better chance.

My ask would be to increase drop rates ever so slightly, in a way that you would only notice if you were target farming something (e.g. a card/specific boss unique), but not so much that we'd for example see way more divines or t0 uniques.