Why are damage mods still so high on weapons?

I love pretty much everything from Exilecon, except that I saw a +57% increased physical damage mods on melee weapons are still huge. I can understand they cannot fix this for PoE1, but PoE2 would be a great moment.

The issue with huge damage mods:
It makes itemization for melee weapons one-dimensional.

The size of the increased physical damage mod is more important than the other 5 mods on the item. It greatly reduces the chance that you can upgrade your weapon with a new drop after you got a good roll of this mod or made a good weapon with the vendor recipe.

Maybe significantly lowering the numbers on these mods would make them too weak. Ok, they can be removed entirely and the game is being rebalanced anyway. This would be the right time to do it.

Am I wrong here or do you agree physical damage should not rely on a singular mod?

Edit: full proposal for fix:
- Reduce the numbers of mods with "increased physical damage" to 1/3 of what they are currently.
- Maybe increase physical weapon base damage to keep melee competitive. PoE2 will have a new balance regardless.

there is no fixing poe2 so you are wrong!

the higher the number the more scope there is for an item to be exceptional.



a low variance mod pool can be seen in a game like diablo 3 where you get something like 5-10% increased local damage on a weapon as a stat range. in poe its 3-259%+ requiring 2 or 3 mods.



now think about how special a well rolled weapon in diablo 3 is vs a well rolled weapon in poe. if you find a weapon with 10% damage roll + flat damage in d3 how special does it feel? if you find a weapon with 225% damage + flat in poe how would you feel?




its that massive variance that allows items to feel valuable which in turn gives you a reason to farm. in d3 theres nothing to find, low variance means you just find everything quickly and theres nothing exceptional in the system that feels exciting to hunt for. the item system in poe is designed so that you never max it out, no matter how insane that item you found is, it could have been better, theres always a chance that next swrd you pick up is totally out of this world crazy.



how would u make it less 1 dimentional? by just removing the ability for mods to matter that much? that seems like what ur saying, make mods matter less so its not as important to get the 'right' ones? i feel like that doesnt lead to a game where the items are more interesting, just to a game where the items dont matter.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

the higher the number the more scope there is for an item to be exceptional.



a low variance mod pool can be seen in a game like diablo 3 where you get something like 5-10% increased local damage on a weapon as a stat range. in poe its 3-259%+ requiring 2 or 3 mods.



now think about how special a well rolled weapon in diablo 3 is vs a well rolled weapon in poe. if you find a weapon with 10% damage roll + flat damage in d3 how special does it feel? if you find a weapon with 225% damage + flat in poe how would you feel?




its that massive variance that allows items to feel valuable which in turn gives you a reason to farm. in d3 theres nothing to find, low variance means you just find everything quickly and theres nothing exceptional in the system that feels exciting to hunt for. the item system in poe is designed so that you never max it out, no matter how insane that item you found is, it could have been better, theres always a chance that next swrd you pick up is totally out of this world crazy.



how would u make it less 1 dimentional? by just removing the ability for mods to matter that much? that seems like what ur saying, make mods matter less so its not as important to get the 'right' ones? i feel like that doesnt lead to a game where the items are more interesting, just to a game where the items dont matter.

The better comparison for d3 is a ring/amulet without a socket. Weapons don't matter that much in d3(they all roll well and have normalized damage), but those jewel socket are basically a poe ascendancy.

But back to op. Yeah damage mod tiers decimate player choice. At some level you need t1 phys % and added phys.

We don't know how restrictive it is without seeing the passive tree, if clusters are in the game, how skills scale, if armor can have damage mods, the mod pool, etc.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

the higher the number the more scope there is for an item to be exceptional.

a low variance mod pool can be seen in a game like diablo 3 where you get something like 5-10% increased local damage on a weapon as a stat range. in poe its 3-259%+ requiring 2 or 3 mods.

The issue is not the number variance or number of mods that can add to dmg, I'm fine with those. It's only the overwhemling importance of the damage roll. An item has 6 mods, 1 of those should not be more important than the other 5 combined.

What happens now is that almost no upgrades come from drops, how could they if people don't even pick up dropped items? Instead melee damage was fixed by giving melee a vendor recipe. This means that while lvling almost all upgrades come from that vendor recipe. We now have an opportunity for a much better fix: lower rolls (also balance the rest of the game) so that when valuing a physical damage item we look at more than 1 mod.

In lew of removing the mod entirely the numbers could be lowered by 1/3. Of course this would have to be balanced with the rest of the game. So just on increases in physical damage.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

now think about how special a well rolled weapon in diablo 3 is vs a well rolled weapon in poe. if you find a weapon with 10% damage roll + flat damage in d3 how special does it feel? if you find a weapon with 225% damage + flat in poe how would you feel?

I don't think this a valid comparison. Even with this weakness PoE itemization is way better than that of D3 which is dominated by stats and sets.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

its that massive variance that allows items to feel valuable which in turn gives you a reason to farm. in d3 theres nothing to find, low variance means you just find everything quickly and theres nothing exceptional in the system that feels exciting to hunt for. the item system in poe is designed so that you never max it out, no matter how insane that item you found is, it could have been better, theres always a chance that next swrd you pick up is totally out of this world crazy.

I'm fine with increasing the variance and keeping the situation where 3 mods can affect the damage. That's completely separate from the numbers being too high.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

how would u make it less 1 dimentional? by just removing the ability for mods to matter that much? that seems like what ur saying, make mods matter less so its not as important to get the 'right' ones? i feel like that doesnt lead to a game where the items are more interesting, just to a game where the items dont matter.

No, I'm fine with all the other mods. I propose changing the "increased physical damage" numbers only.

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roundishcap wrote:

The better comparison for d3 is a ring/amulet without a socket. Weapons don't matter that much in d3(they all roll well and have normalized damage), but those jewel socket are basically a poe ascendancy.

no actually weapon is the most important thing in d3, all ur damage is coming from multiplying that weapon. youre proving my point, you say the weapon doesnt matter that much because what they did is do what the op is suggesting, they reduced the size of the increased local damage stat to the point where it didnt really matter. the weapon matters completely, its just the roll on the weapon doesnt matter because the variance is 5% to 10%.


the more you reduce the size of the number the more you normalise the damage on weapons, the less potential they have to be well rolled or poorly rolled, you just make the item matter less. thats exactly what im saying. an amulet is not a better comparison at all, thats not a stat range, you are saying that because the socket on the amulet is important but my entire point is that weapon rolls in poe are important and they are not important in d3 precisely because the numbers in poe are huge.


its not a mistake, its the reason poe has amazing items and d3 just has bad items. d3 weapons dont all roll well, they removed the ability for a weapon to roll well or roll bad because they think theyre 'fixing' what the op here is trying to fix, but it doesnt make items more interesting by making them more diverse it just makes them less interesting because they matter less.


its fine that if you want a physical weapon the most important stat on it is the one that increases the weapons physical damage. if you reduce that stat you still want that stat, you just care less about that item slot. and extreme example being d3 where you get it down to 5-10% and you see the result...

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roundishcap wrote:

Weapons don't matter that much in d3

thats what you achieve. you dont achieve weapons are more interesting and multidimensional in d3.