The promise of a shared endgame fooled collectors and standard players

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Echothesis wrote:

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Chickenwink wrote:

Noone promised you anything.

Its a video game.

Can I pay for it with video money then?:)

If they'd said about making separate game earlier, and close-to-ruthless game to boot, there would have been people who reduced their support of poe1.

They chose not to say it for quite a while, maybe to secure more donations, maybe because they were uncertain about it themselves (although latter is unlikely, you don't commit with full development costs before figuring out all your goals). They may not "promise" things in lawyer terms, but in a game with this scale of player time investment, informing playerbase is crucial to the "banking of trust", as Mr. Wilson called it.

For now I got a feeling they used player donations to make something they want, not what majority of players wants, judging by the percentage of poe1 players who actively play ruthless here. And you cannot deny that flow of player donations was influenced by what they were saying about the future of poe1 as well.

Yeah that's how honest business works right? You pay for an apple and you get a red banana.

People like to mince words here but the fact is anyone who supported (supported) the game so they have a right to complain if they don't like where its going.

I never asked for that zoom zoom crap, None of my friends who spent TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON THIS GAME asked for zoom zoom shit.

The DEVELOPER ADDED THE ZOOM against the wishes of those who were paying to keep the lights on.

But hey its awfully convenient for GGG if we're fighting each other til PoE2 rather than pointing the blame squarely where it should be, at the development team who betrayed us and is allowing us to take the blame for their actions.

Please look in the mirror in real life, thanks GGG.

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cgexile wrote:

To 180 their strategy and make such an announcement to the existing players, they must be pretty strong financially; probably having enough funding for poe2 completion that requires little to no reliance on supporter pack sales in the immediate future.

... not that off-topic (promise!) - I've been having this ---image in my mind for quite some time now.

PoE the game is actually like some pub, or tavern of sorts. But with a special twist: All the service goes to the people who just entered through the front door. The longer you're in, the further you get pushed to the back, out that door there and then finally into the vast (and cozy! and beautiful!) backyard where tons of people linger and loiter and wait for service that never comes - the quite limited amount of staff is happily preoccupied with whoever's still in the front room.

And your comment really did bring back not only this picture but also the question - how much do they make in comparison off which people? Maybe they do not need to care. Or they better should? Who knows?

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Yeah that's how honest business works right? You pay for an apple and you get a red banana.

People like to mince words here but the fact is anyone who supported (supported) the game so they have a right to complain if they don't like where its going.

How about "you pay for a cosmetic item pack and you get a cosmetic item pack". Apples and bananas is the mincing of words here.

You absolutely have a right to complain, of course - that doesn't even have anything to do with paying money, it's just the nature of 'free speech'. We can all complain, as much as we like, about videogames, movies, books, politicians, friends, goats, lamps, whatever.

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

Yeah I know you can be upset and all but you know just don't say they promised you stuff when they didn't and I'm sure deep in your passion of this game even you know they didn't promise you.

They said it sure but never promised as you know things can change in the past 4 years.

Lmao "but never promised".
Imagine any reputable public company in the world after giving statement on crucial point saying "we didn't promise".
Yeah, it shares would plummet to oblivion and would get etiquette of being non-trustworthy aka Muppets.

lol posted wrongly pls ignore

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Reshemin wrote:

... not that off-topic (promise!) - I've been having this ---image in my mind for quite some time now.

PoE the game is actually like some pub, or tavern of sorts. But with a special twist: All the service goes to the people who just entered through the front door. The longer you're in, the further you get pushed to the back, out that door there and then finally into the vast (and cozy! and beautiful!) backyard where tons of people linger and loiter and wait for service that never comes - the quite limited amount of staff is happily preoccupied with whoever's still in the front room.

Huh? To believe this you'd have to ignore every endgame update they've ever done. Shaper vs Elder, Elder Guardians, Sirus + Guardians, The Maven, Uber Bosses, reworked end game mechanics (Flawless Breachstones, Blight Ravaged maps), the Atlas Passive Tree. All of those things are in service pretty much EXCLUSIVELY for long time players. New players aren't doing that stuff their first league.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

The new video with Mark and Chris make me a little bit hopeful.

Check out

07:00 - How should players approach the split of PoE 1 and 2?
08:35 - How will GGG allocate resources between PoE 1 and 2?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-zznPPwJ3M

Very enlightening to this forum thread conversation.

Thank you!

edit: I thought I'd give a quick summary. Mark and Chris said that GGG would continue to enhance and work on both PoE1 and PoE2. There will be new leagues for both games going forward.

The thing is no matter how they spin this.. They're splitting resources between two games instead of the development power returning and everyone benefiting in the whole game.

half the content twice the mtx, even with another league it's not adding "content" its just shortening the cycle between "no content" so there's even less diversity and people get bored just after buying their MTX... PERFECT.

Seems like GGG has fully given up trying to make the thing they said they were making.

You make an excellent point. Mitigating your point, at least somewhat, Chris states in that clip that PoE (and Poe2) were designed to share content and leverage the same content within different contexts. So theoretically the enhancements they make to PoE1 can be leveraged in PoE2 and vice versa.

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Echothesis wrote:

Can I pay for it with video money then?:)

If they'd said about making separate game earlier, and close-to-ruthless game to boot, there would have been people who reduced their support of poe1.


They chose not to say it for quite a while, maybe to secure more donations, maybe because they were uncertain about it themselves (although latter is unlikely, you don't commit with full development costs before figuring out all your goals). They may not "promise" things in lawyer terms, but in a game with this scale of player time investment, informing playerbase is crucial to the "banking of trust", as Mr. Wilson called it.

For now I got a feeling they used player donations to make something they want, not what majority of players wants, judging by the percentage of poe1 players who actively play ruthless here. And you cannot deny that flow of player donations was influenced by what they were saying about the future of poe1 as well.

You can spend your money however you want. Nothing was promised to you ever.

What was said though, if you actually watched the league reveals, in the last 2 years at this point, once it gets to the supporter packs, Chris always says "...will be directly supporting the development of POE2".

So if anything. Thats on you for not paying attention.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Yeah that's how honest business works right? You pay for an apple and you get a red banana.

Possibly one of the worst takes I have ever seen. You buy, and get a(n) red apple, because you grabbed it yourself from the red apple section. And it wont spontaneously change into a red banana.

You funded POE2 without seeing or touching the product.

And the best part? You still dont know what you are getting, we have the smallest fraction of a piece of a broken Lego of what we are getting from POE2. So this collective whining about what you will or wont be getting is pointless.

Also also, how is this process any different from any league developed to date? It isnt

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SilentSymphony wrote:

People like to mince words here but the fact is anyone who supported (supported) the game so they have a right to complain if they don't like where its going.

I never asked for that zoom zoom crap, None of my friends who spent TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON THIS GAME asked for zoom zoom shit.

The DEVELOPER ADDED THE ZOOM against the wishes of those who were paying to keep the lights on.

But hey its awfully convenient for GGG if we're fighting each other til PoE2 rather than pointing the blame squarely where it should be, at the development team who betrayed us and is allowing us to take the blame for their actions.

Please look in the mirror in real life, thanks GGG.

Im seeing a contradictory statement in here. POE2 isn't zoom zoom from what we have seen. So..... ??? They are making the game you want.

Kitava said he would watch the roasting birds for the gods' feast, to prevent them from burning. Then, he ate them. After all, plans change, right? The other gods were furious because he lied. They blinded him as punishment, and to prevent him from telling that particular lie again.

Even the Karui gods consider saying that you will do one thing and then doing another to be a lie.

Also: For everyone on this forum who steadfastly tells those of us who feel we were promised something that we were, in fact, not promised anything...

That's your opinion, nothing more. It doesn't invalidate our opinions, nor our opinions that we paid for more than just shiny pixels. You can pontificate as much as you like, belittle us, whatever. It no more makes you right than our own opinions make us right in any absolute sense.

But in expressing your opinions as attacks on other posters, it makes you look like that other thing everyone has. You know what I mean. ='[.]'=

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Jix_91 wrote:

Essentially breaking trust with the whole standard playerbase. It would be really interesting to see, which share the standard playerbase and their monetary support has on the development?

That ship sailed when they've started changing all items, without keeping legacy versions. And they didn't stop with that, the ex/div change was the last nail in the coffin for me.

Though you could tell the ship was going to sail even before that, with the 0 effort into keeping your standard atlas / progression healthy.