PSA: Gold

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1453R wrote:

That EVERYBODY wants Path of Exile to be a completely pointless skill-not-required knowledge-not-required Cookie Clicker nonsense game where literally the only thing that matters is knowing the magical secrets to generating currency from the aether.

I am not sure what you're talking about. It requires a great amount of know-how and skill to get to the point that you can even try to fight a "normal" maven boss solo in softcore. On steam less than 2% of players defeated her. I don't want to know how many people have defeated uber maven solo, I haven't. I don't see the difficulty to spend 5 minutes dash rolling around a monster that doesnt drop anything, and isn't even and end game boss. If you are into that kind of business, again: go ruthless.

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1453R wrote:

Either the game is a chore because you've got shit gear and every monster out-regens your damage or the game is a snore because you're geared to the point where you cannot die in an instance and the entire game is just "click randomly on the screen until my loot filter tells me I Win."

lol, the fun lies exactly inbetween. Finding better gear to be able to deal with harder content. Just taking away all the gear and making every content hard to deal with, and requiring you to dodge roll - what game exactly are you looking for? Go play Hades, or smthing, if you really dislike loot so much.

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1453R wrote:

This is not, in fact, how everybody has fun. Some people are looking for exactly the soprt of badass stylish Cool Shit Grinding Gear is displaying in PoE2. And the cool part is that they don't have to please the Cookie Clicker Religion of Zoom crowd that hates actually engaging with a game. Y'all already have your game. Path 1 isn't going anywhere, and it will remain the same game it is right now - a noble, valiant attempt at a deep, strategic and engaging ARPG that's been utterly ruined by out-of-control power creep and scaling.

And every time I hear "BURR HURR go play Ruthless if you want this kinda garbage PoE1 is for the Religion of Zoom!", I now have a response: "BURR HURR go play Path 1, PoE2 is for the Action Gameplay Enjoyer!"

You. Got. Yours.. Let us have ours.

No it's not as easy. Poe2 will be the successor and it's pretty clear they will at some point abandon Poe1. That's why Poe2 will need to be as good as possible. Setting Poe2.Softcore = Poe1.Ruthless-With-Gold + dodge-roll and other "game-engaging-no-loot-no-zoom-no-fun-mechanics", it will be impossible for us players, that love zoom, to play Poe2. Whereas people that hate fun and love self-punishment, they already do have the possibility to play Poe1.Ruthless, but yet, you don't. I wonder why?

"lol, the fun lies exactly inbetween. Finding better gear to be able to deal with harder content. Just taking away all the gear and making every content hard to deal with, and requiring you to dodge roll - what game exactly are you looking for? Go play Hades, or smthing, if you really dislike loot so much."

Reminds me of a long time ago a conversation with a friend who played diablo 3 and came to poe for a while

He made a similar argument later

And I told him that the most important thing in Poe is testing the tree and characters, adjusting what you find

They didn't show the endgame

You could talk about the loot for hours it's nice to feel when you find something cool you can use, but the way to it is also important and not just auto click zoom

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Proxava wrote:

Whereas people that hate fun and love self-punishment, they already do have the possibility to play Poe1.Ruthless, but yet, you don't. I wonder why?

Here. Let me make this as clear as I can, because this argument is fundamentally stupid and I'm sick of seeing it.

Nobody cares about Ruthless.

Nobody. Fucking. Cares. About. Ruthless.

You're going to see that and say "See? SEE?! You wanna be able to go through maps three times faster than the speed of sound, drop fifteen thousand items per map of which you pick up maybe two, and be forced to stay awake twenty-two hours a day for the first three days of a league flipping the market to try and get the outrageous ultragear required to put Uber Maven on AFK farm status too!"

No. That's an idiotic response and anyone who gives it should feel bad for doing so.

Nobody cares about Ruthless because Ruthless doesn't fix any of Path of Exile's problems. It just introduces an artificial gear gate without actually fixing the tired, oudated combat, the outrageous and unsustainable overscaling, the bloat of Old League content nobody cares about anymore, the flawed skill system that inevitably leads to overspecialization, the terrible "Crafting" system that requires thousands of divines' worth of currency before you can actuall use it...

Ruthless people end up at the same horrible endpoint, with the same 100M Pinnacle DPS putting the Uber Maven on AFK farm status and spending all their time complaining about loot nerfs on Reddit. It just takes them three weeks instead of three days.

You know what'd fix PoE1?

A fluid, engaging skill system that allows Multi Button Enjoyers to actually have more than one button and which allows Grinding Gear to design wholly different, unique, and excellent skills that serve unique roles and allow for unique builds.

An incredible new animation system allowing for dynamic and powerful movements, making your exile play and feel like a skilled warrior instead of a mannequin with rocket shoes and a baseball bat.

New monster design that rewards players for knowing what given monsters do and being able to play around them, enabling skillful in-the-moment play to actually exist.

A multi-spec system that allows for characters to actually pursue versatile builds that have different answers for different situations, and then putting stuff in the game that rewards that versatility while punishing overspecialization instead of picking one sole single thing and scaling that thing to Uranus.

A crafting system designed for real actual players, where you don't need to buy two thousand chaos orbs, five hundred exalts, and a hundred divines to craft one item once and nobody ever does it except the Religion of Zoom ultrawealthy "elite" because for that same investment you could just buy an entire character.

So on and so forth.

You keep seeing people protest against Religion of Zoom superultramegahyperspeed and assuming that all those people want is for the same game to go slower. Thus, you keep trying to force them to play Ruthless mode because Ruthless is "slower" (hint: no it isn't) and that should be the end of it.

You're wrong.

Most of us don't really care about fast or slow. We care about the thing we're doing in the moment being intrinsically fun. We're perfectly willing to go plenty fast if the speed is fluid, dynamic, engaging, and exciting to control against equally dynamic and dangerous foes that put our abilities to the test. Path of Exile 1 is none of these things. Movement is stiff, nothing is dynamic, almost all monster design is ten year old moose piss, and the game moves so fast that engagement is a thing of the past.

Ruthless does not fix one single problem with Path of Exile the First, because it's nothing but the same-ass game with even dumber trading requirements and less opportunity to explore the flexibility and creativity that is currently the only fucking reason to play this Cookie Clicker market flipping nightmare.

PoE2 has shown me that I love what Path of Exile should be, not what it is. It's mutated so far it's become unrecognizable, and I completely understand Charan's disillusionment with the current game. I still run it sometimes, sure - but my breaks between leagues are getting longer and my willingness to put up with Path the First's shit is getting slimmer. And ruthless isn't going to change a god damn thing about any of that.

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1453R wrote:

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Proxava wrote:

Whereas people that hate fun and love self-punishment, they already do have the possibility to play Poe1.Ruthless, but yet, you don't. I wonder why?

Here. Let me make this as clear as I can, because this argument is fundamentally stupid and I'm sick of seeing it.

Nobody cares about Ruthless.

Nobody. Fucking. Cares. About. Ruthless.

The demos clearly show the following equation:


Poe2 = Poe1.Ruthless-with-gold + "dodge-roll" + "other-boring-game-engaging-mechanics-no-zoom-no-loot-no-fun".


Hence Poe1.Ruthless-with-gold is a very substantial part of Poe2 as for now. If you want to test Poe2, just go and play ruthless. And it will turn you off. And you will agree with me.

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1453R wrote:

You're going to see that and say "See? SEE?! You wanna be able to go through maps three times faster than the speed of sound, drop fifteen thousand items per map of which you pick up maybe two, and be forced to stay awake twenty-two hours a day for the first three days of a league flipping the market to try and get the outrageous ultragear required to put Uber Maven on AFK farm status too!"

No. That's an idiotic response and anyone who gives it should feel bad for doing so.

I want to be able to play the game in a way that I like, exactly as you. But Poe2 forces a general slow down. If you enjoy a slow game, there is ruthless for you. But in Poe2 there is no mode for me that speeds things up. Because they and you want everybody to be as slow turtle as you?

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1453R wrote:

Nobody cares about Ruthless because Ruthless doesn't fix any of Path of Exile's problems.

And that's why Poe2 right now is going into a really bad direction (see the equation above).

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1453R wrote:

the bloat of Old League content nobody cares about anymore, the flawed skill system that inevitably leads to overspecialization, the terrible "Crafting" system that requires thousands of divines' worth of currency before you can actuall use it...

Not sure if we're talking about the same game. If you hate Poe so much, go quit. If you and the devs are really so eager to create a Poe2 for people who hate Poe so much, then why you don't call it different? Like Ruthless or Ruthless Diablo or something like that?

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1453R wrote:

A fluid, engaging skill system that allows Multi Button Enjoyers to actually have more than one button and which allows Grinding Gear to design wholly different, unique, and excellent skills that serve unique roles and allow for unique builds.

Engaging = Having to click every 0.1 Second a button in order not to die in a 5minutes long boss fight that drops a magic flask that is slightly worse than all of your current ones? I don't enjoy multi-button-gameplay, unless it alows me to one-hit those bosses. There needs to be a reward for awkward stupid gameplay. But guess what, there won't be! Instead every single build will need to first shock the monster (or equivalent), then shoot something that explodes it for 1% of damage, and hope for enough shock effect to proc your comet. Wow, so engagin, so much fun.

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1453R wrote:

An incredible new animation system allowing for dynamic and powerful movements, making your exile play and feel like a skilled warrior instead of a mannequin with rocket shoes and a baseball bat.

New monster design that rewards players for knowing what given monsters do and being able to play around them, enabling skillful in-the-moment play to actually exist.

Have you started the game in the past week? They absolutely wrecked the game with their new engine. Probably Tencent behind it, with a deal with the Nvidia to make people buy their high-end products? The new engine sucks, game still looks the same, but performance-wise trash right now, with tons of lag-spikes and chunks that don't load immediately.

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1453R wrote:

A multi-spec system that allows for characters to actually pursue versatile builds that have different answers for different situations, and then putting stuff in the game that rewards that versatility while punishing overspecialization instead of picking one sole single thing and scaling that thing to Uranus.

Yours and GGG's vision is to make players weapon swap to clear a white monster, wtf? And even more: To make us spec into different builds. Ideally also involving group play. You really want multi-boxing to become a thing in poe so hard or what?

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1453R wrote:

A crafting system designed for real actual players, where you don't need to buy two thousand chaos orbs, five hundred exalts, and a hundred divines to craft one item once and nobody ever does it except the Religion of Zoom ultrawealthy "elite" because for that same investment you could just buy an entire character.

I can craft a good item with a decent fractured base, a couple of essences, maybe 5 divines and that's it. The perfect item usually takes more, but that's alright. If you need thousands of chaos to craft a good item, you are probably doing it wrong: Chaos-spamming is not very efficient. But if you and GGG loves chaos spamming so much: Welcome to Poe2, I guess.

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1453R wrote:

Ruthless is "slower" (hint: no it isn't) and that should be the end of it.

??? no movement-abilities, no crafting, no deterministic support-gems, few deterministic skill-gems: not slow enough for you? If devs think like you, we will have Poe2 = Poe1.Ruthlessruthlessruthlessruthless-with-ton-of-gold-to-compensate.

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Proxava wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

But gold is first and foremost something you use while leveling. They've buffed the vendors, and that's where your gold goes. And as a system meant for leveling, I think it's an OK system. Easy to understand, easy to learn and intuitive for both new and old players.

And guess what, it'll keep dropping. Replacing all your juicy drops. Even if they're smart enough to disable the auto-pick-up, you're still seeing less drops for useless gold.

This is the most absurd baseless assumption I saw written in the whole forum. DO you have a probability distribution table of the drops in POE2? No .. so what you wrote is FALSE!

Today most of the loot are normal or magic items that you do not even LOOK on screen. If they are replaced for gold.. how does that harm you in ANY form? You did NOT collect those in POE1, so How in hell their numbers reducing will harm you in ANY form? SO until you have a probability table for drops.. you are just spewing things from your imagination.


Btw Every single thing I saw about POE 2 is better than POE 1. I had stopped playing POE 1 for 3 years already, but this new direction will maek me return and with an open wallet.

They can make gold a desirable drop with viable, fun, impactful gold sinks. Last Epoch did it.

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Nomancs wrote:

*this "hoho" was officialy approved by "hoho" movement author, xPiranha

I've yet to author my first "hoho" and now seeing this I'm so glad I haven't. Can you imagine the embarrassment if I didn't get proper permission and permitting for my "hoho"s? I can't.

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innervation wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

*this "hoho" was officialy approved by "hoho" movement author, xPiranha

I've yet to author my first "hoho" and now seeing this I'm so glad I haven't. Can you imagine the embarrassment if I didn't get proper permission and permitting for my "hoho"s? I can't.

That is why I filed all documents, got my CV, IGN, CNN, BBC, 2 photos of my headphones, 3 photos of ISP attached, send it through Amsterdam gateway with Wraeclast Runners Courier Service and finally got an official stamp on it. Was totaly worth it. Hoho*!


*this "hoho" was officialy approved by "hoho" movement author, xPiranha

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Proxava wrote:

I am not sure what you're talking about. It requires a great amount of know-how and skill to get to the point that you can even try to fight a "normal" maven boss solo in softcore. On steam less than 2% of players defeated her. I don't want to know how many people have defeated uber maven solo, I haven't. I don't see the difficulty to spend 5 minutes dash rolling around a monster that doesnt drop anything, and isn't even and end game boss. If you are into that kind of business, again: go ruthless.

You realize most people stop playing the game as soon as they kill kitava? That most people think the late game of massive explosions is VERY VERY boring ( exploding the same map 40 times to rise and repeat in new level)?

One cannot judge the difficulty of late game without considerign how many players drop because of boredom.

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Urza_Mechwalker wrote:

This is the most absurd baseless assumption I saw written in the whole forum. DO you have a probability distribution table of the drops in POE2? No .. so what you wrote is FALSE!

The purpose of gold, as others have mentioned here, is to replace drops. Even if they are able to replace exactly those useless drops that nobody picks up, the best they can do is to replace it with a useless vendor that buys your gold for useless items, and introducing auto-filling your inventory with a currency you don't want. You don't need any distribution to guess in what direction the gold system goes, it's pretty obvious. And let's be realistic, they won't be able to filter out exactly those items that nobody wants. The gold system will also filter out items, we want.

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Urza_Mechwalker wrote:

Today most of the loot are normal or magic items that you do not even LOOK on screen. If they are replaced for gold.. how does that harm you in ANY form? You did NOT collect those in POE1, so How in hell their numbers reducing will harm you in ANY form? SO until you have a probability table for drops.. you are just spewing things from your imagination.

Well, as you mention further down, you haven't played the game for years. If you had, you would recognise Ruthless-with-gold in those demos they showed. Currently Poe2 (minus those animations some of the people in this thread fancy so much) is actually nothing else but a ruthless-with-gold. Go, update the game now, and create a ruthless character, beat the campaign and then come back and tell me if it was fun.

I have played the game extensivley during the past 5 years, and ruthless-with-gold too. Ruthless-with-gold is garbage. Trust me. And so is their current vision of Poe2.

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Urza_Mechwalker wrote:

Btw Every single thing I saw about POE 2 is better than POE 1. I had stopped playing POE 1 for 3 years already, but this new direction will maek me return and with an open wallet.

Well, what exactly you want Poe to become? A stupid dark souls, or a stupid elden ring, or a stupid lost ark? I don't like those games, maybe you do, but I don't, and if Poe2 will be like that, it will be most certainly a big failure. If you are willing to pay for this, it's fine, but please after they release it and you at least beat the campaign.