Lore Question: Why Karui people and Tukohama are aggressive to Marauder in Act 6?

Those are ancient corrupted Karui, nothing to do with the one you're playing or the ones in act 5 (the slaves, not Kitava's minions). As for Tukohama, Gods are assholes by design.

As to Tukohama's case, he's a muscle bound meat head god who loves fighting. Particularly in the state all the gods woke up in, I doubt they're very clear minded. And it's not like you showed up at the God of War's door with offerings to appease him into pacification. An offering I'm sure would require several human sacrifices at the point Tukohama wakes up in, seems like most the gods are in need of sacrifices, perhaps as a result of their long sleep, I've always assumed they woke in a very weakened state and are all looking to get a quick fix of power in the arms race to recovery (save for Lunaris and Solaris, who are just picking fights with each other).

As to the Reverents that make up his forces, you're not from their tribe, why do they care? Heck, Koam waged a massive brutal war with his own people as recently as the Eternal Era, the Karui don't seem to take offrent to a little internal conflict. And for all we know, these are all just extenions of Tukohama, and thus creatures that require war and conflict to survive. It's their entire identity, they cannot exist without the concept of conflict and strife, thus their nature is to create more and more of it.

I feel the game dropped the ball on this at the start of Act 6, yeah. At least a hello would have been nice, or a couple of lore clickables to give some insight.

I imagine we’re supposed to assume they’re somehow brainwashed by Tukohama, because the other alternative is that GGG have just intentionally chosen to depict Karui society as typical “savages”, with the only communicative, respectful members being those removed from it. Which would be pretty horrible colonialist bullshit and I suspect not intended. The problem is by not making it clear, they make that reading just as supported by the text.

I dont find the karui sterotypical savages at all...

They are always descripted as very warmongering, but thats hardly unusual even for real-life european and asiatic regimes, they feel not that different from your average feudal/colonial-era civ, except maybe for the static tech and melee fixation(wich happens to be two quite common traits even in the modern world. Just notice how common tech being evil -bad guys have floating bases, good guys live on agriculture villages- and swords being glorious are prevalent on many medias)

And theres also the fact most of what we get about them are being told by the people who enslaved them, so not exactly impartial sources

But anyway... the whole camp lore-wise dont make a whole lot of sense: Kitava is the big boss, but in lore, hes a very small fish Tukohama can push around with impunity. More likely, the "gods" we fight are not actually the real deal and we only kill avatars of those gods or physical manifests that they made possessing bodies of random followers and beasts and they are not fighting in their real bodies or something on those lines(wich would explain OPs question: Tukohama is agressive because hes not actually fighting for real and in his mind, if you cant kill even that puny avatar, then youre clearly not a worthy warrior or somesuch...). That would also explain how the simulacrum guy commands forces WAY above the other "gods" despite being a mid-tier deity lore-wise
Perhaps the only god we really kill is kitava... hence, why they only call us godslayers in the epilogue, even though we are clearing multiple deities since act5

Because they are racists. Marauders don't look like them.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I feel the game dropped the ball on this at the start of Act 6, yeah. At least a hello would have been nice, or a couple of lore clickables to give some insight.

I imagine we’re supposed to assume they’re somehow brainwashed by Tukohama, because the other alternative is that GGG have just intentionally chosen to depict Karui society as typical “savages”, with the only communicative, respectful members being those removed from it. Which would be pretty horrible colonialist bullshit and I suspect not intended. The problem is by not making it clear, they make that reading just as supported by the text.

I don't entirely disagree with you, however I feel there's enough text, particularly from Sin, that it's not the Karui nature to be savage or blood thirsty. That was something Tukohama did. HE tried to warp them into a warlike culture that supported his ideals and goals. The same thing Koam did, the same thing any brutal conqurer does before they are (if successful) lauded as hero and brilliant mind. Koam is heralded as a great king by the Marauder himself, only to find doubt later through Act 1 via the Enviromental lore (and proven at the end in the Dream of Fury). It was Hyrri who did most of the good noble stuff (using an edge case in the Way to allow the Karui to land, having the wisdom to flee Wraeclast during the Cataclsym, etc). Yet it's Koam who's remembered as the Great King.

PoE is full of 'Don't meet your heroes" bits, and Tukohama is definitly one, and given that it tends to have a very 'Anti-Euro' feel to a ton of it (the Eternals where the most recent world crackers, Oriath is doing no better racing into the same cliff with slavery).

There's a ton of other Karui gods that do not exemplify the savage nature, but the two that have to die (Tukohama and Kitava) are the two that are that savage nature embodied. The desire for war and the desire to consume, hence why they are the bosses, and there's little need to show up against Ramako or Hinakora (though there's an edge case that these gods ARE renamed other gods).

I always figured they weren't actually GODS anymore, but instead pathetic remnants of what they were before the Beast kept them in thrall for fuck knows how long. You try sleeping in a drug-induced torpor for centuries and see how well your body handles suddenly being woken up. That or they're relatively frail avatars, not unlike poor old Bannon or Avarius.

Because good grief, if those truly mid bosses of Part 2 are the *gods* of Wræclast, then what does that make every non-god boss before them that seriously kicked our arses...if not god-like? Or are we somehow pretending that between our arrival back in Oriath and our leaving it having been minced into submission by Kitava (who I think is closer to an actual god in power given his giant prison-statue in Oriath) that we are suddenly strong enough to kill actual gods? I mean, yay power fantasy but that's a bit much.

As for why Tuks isn't all lovey-dovey with the Marauder, others here have answered that sufficiently. God of War, corrupted, and all that other convenient shit explaining a boss that impressed me the first few times...and after that was just part of the process. GGG did that thing sooooooo many fantasy narrative designers do: came up with an awesome villain and OOPS killed her off not even halfway into the story (although it was the 'end' of the story at the time, of course). Everything after that just looks like badguy shit they made up on the fly because uh it was. But then they doubled down and made the next tier of baddies gods, because whoa awesome. And where do you go from there? Eh, space? Time? Spacetime? Otherworldspacetime? Somewhere where one's realm's Gods are another realm's toddlers. Where a rare mob is so much stronger than even a god of Wræclast.

Whoa awesome.

Thank you everybody for your replies!
Like Northern_Ronin mentioned, this game is full of "Don't meet your heroes" bits. Marauder glorifies his ancestors and always wants to show how strong he is to them and make them proud, but when he actually met both of his ancestors, it was quite disappointing (especially with Kaom, and considering that Kaom is Tukohama's son). Both Kaom's betrayal and Tukohama's infinite lust for war were really disappointing, because they were portrayed as great Karui heroes, but they were just some blood-thirty tyrants in the end.
But still, according to Foreverhappychan's reply, I understood that the end of the story in the game was in act 4, where after killing Malachai Marauder was screaming that "Kitava is father of corruption no more" and that's probably why there're no Marauder replies at all starting from act 6 and so on. Maybe the game would be updated later and some replies would be added after encountering/killing Tukohama and other bosses, but the game isn't "finished" (with lore, I mean) right now.
PoE reminds me of a Dark Souls a little bit lore wise, since a lot of lore is hidden and untold (that may be either unfinished or intended, idk). But in general, the story of the game is amazing and the game is great by itself.

Thank you everyone for your answers again and I would appreciate anyone answering to this question from their own side. Have a nice day.

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Vios_134 wrote:

Thank you everybody for your replies!
Like Northern_Ronin mentioned, this game is full of "Don't meet your heroes" bits. Marauder glorifies his ancestors and always wants to show how strong he is to them and make them proud, but when he actually met both of his ancestors, it was quite disappointing (especially with Kaom, and considering that Kaom is Tukohama's son). Both Kaom's betrayal and Tukohama's infinite lust for war were really disappointing, because they were portrayed as great Karui heroes, but they were just some blood-thirty tyrants in the end.
But still, according to Foreverhappychan's reply, I understood that the end of the story in the game was in act 4, where after killing Malachai Marauder was screaming that "Kitava is father of corruption no more" and that's probably why there're no Marauder replies at all starting from act 6 and so on. Maybe the game would be updated later and some replies would be added after encountering/killing Tukohama and other bosses, but the game isn't "finished" (with lore, I mean) right now.
PoE reminds me of a Dark Souls a little bit lore wise, since a lot of lore is hidden and untold (that may be either unfinished or intended, idk). But in general, the story of the game is amazing and the game is great by itself.

Thank you everyone for your answers again and I would appreciate anyone answering to this question from their own side. Have a nice day.

Most people seem to forget where the game takes place. Wraeclast is a continent that corrupts. No matter if they were heroes or gods, all that touch Wraeclast get corrupted. Kaom may have been a hero once, but in Wreaclkast he became corrupted. Reading the Karui stones in Act 1 will tell you that story. That's why the Marauder hates Kaom, for being weak and getting corrupted. Most of the story revolves around that corruption. Even the characters we play get corrupted, as told in the Elderslayer part of the story.
Also regarding the gods, most gods we kill are just humans that transcend somehow; they're strong but not really gods. There are let's say 3 types of "gods" in this game:

1. True gods, let's say, or primal gods: like: Sin, Innocence, Kitava, Lunaris and Solaris, the Delirium guy (don't know his name)
2. Transcend gods: The ones in the Pantheon, minus Solaris and Lunaris
3. The eldritch space horrors: Elder, Maven, Infinite Hunger, Searing Exarch

Might have missed a few, but that's my interpretation. Tukohama being a lesser god, he was easily corrupted; nothing to do with his old self back in the day.

Yeah, dialogue after Act 4 is not finished, dunno if they ever will. Only Duelist and Templar (I think) have it after Act 4.

I think the game lore is great. It's interesting how it went from being exiled to a cursed continent, and it progressed into fighting cosmic horrors.