Archmage Support

but it doesnt bring diversity, its a way of scaling damage that also forces a defence mechanism on the character which together dictate the characters gearing.

its an extremely limiting setup in almost every way.

if something can be used with archmage its either an inferior or superior way to use the skill. the idea that it can e perfectly balanced so its exactly the same power is a fantasy.


if its inferior then we still have this post, if its superior then not only do you destroy all other support setups you also destroy armour, evasion, ci, hybirds, low life, life stacking, blockers, essentially every other way of building a casters defences and you make almost all casters use archmage with mom and it is the worst thing ever added to the game in terms of destroying effective build diversity.


the only reason archmage wasnt the most harmful thing ever added to poe in terms of obliterating freedom of choice for effective builds regarding trees, gems and items was that it only worked with lightning spells, so non lightning casters were still able to use a diverse range of ascendancies, items etc.

lightning spells happened to be fairly unpopular leading up to its introduction, they probably accounted for about 1/10 of spell casters being made, maybe less. so when archmage landed it only annihilated all character choice diversity from 10% or less of the current caster meta. if it worked with all spells it would have destroyed the game, it would be a total disaster.



i just dont see how you balance it, when do we ever see multiple ways of doing a thing in the game and theyre all balanced? equally effective? its a dangerous mechanic because its so destructive to character diversity by forcing an all out mana stack that if you miss by a fraction and it becomes the superior choice then youve just nuked the build diversity for every skill archmage works with.
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more you seem to be right about Archmage... It pigeonholes harder than stat stackers.Theoretically it can be used by EB+MoM when you stack both mana and ES, but where are those builds...

Maybe then drop Archmage or merge it with Arcane Surge buff and support gem? It seems that not only the Archmage is/was problematic. The whole Arcane theme needs a closer look...

Here's my take on Arcane Surge:
Buff:
- No longer grants More Spell Damage and 30% increased Mana Regeneration Rate.
- Now grants Regenerate 0.5% of Mana and Energy Shield per second and Regenerate 5 Mana and Energy shield per second;*
Support Gem:
- No longer has a Cost & Reservation Multiplier;
- No longer has Arcane Surge grants (30-58)% increased Mana Regeneration rate;
- Now has Supported Skills have base Mana Cost equal to 5% of Unreserved Maximum Mana, if that value is higher
- Now has Arcane Surge grants 10% more Spell Damage at all levels;
- Now has (0-95)% increased effect of Arcane Surge on you;
- Now has Supported Skills deal (15-24)% more Spell Damage while you have Arcane Surge, up from (10-19)%.
* ES regen to make the buff useful for more builds. Flat regen is for Acts 1-3 where % regen is not too useful yet.

Spoiler
Old Arcane Surge buff granted 0.5% of Mana Regenerated per second. That was ok. What was not ok is the support that raised the base to 1%. It was then multiplied by the Arcane Surge effect, then by % Increased Mana Regeneration Rate, then by % increased Mana Recovery rate - and taht was too much.
But no base regen IMHO pushed it too low in the sustain department. So I propose to keep the base buff consistent across the board and instead apply the effect that stacks additively with other Arcane Surge effects.

Now, current Arcane Surge is mostly used a a free 10% More Damage gained through various means. That makes you feel like you're missing out if you have no access to it. But if you have (like Arcane Pyrotechnics for Traps) - it feels kinda too easy. So I think it's ok to move the damage from the buff to the Support gem so that you have to spend a ge, slot and an action - sorta like melee has to plant totems on bosses
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.
Last edited by Sarganis87#5959 on Sep 8, 2022, 3:38:29 PM
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
but it doesnt bring diversity, its a way of scaling damage that also forces a defence mechanism on the character which together dictate the characters gearing.

its an extremely limiting setup in almost every way.

if something can be used with archmage its either an inferior or superior way to use the skill. the idea that it can e perfectly balanced so its exactly the same power is a fantasy.


if its inferior then we still have this post, if its superior then not only do you destroy all other support setups you also destroy armour, evasion, ci, hybirds, low life, life stacking, blockers, essentially every other way of building a casters defences and you make almost all casters use archmage with mom and it is the worst thing ever added to the game in terms of destroying effective build diversity.


the only reason archmage wasnt the most harmful thing ever added to poe in terms of obliterating freedom of choice for effective builds regarding trees, gems and items was that it only worked with lightning spells, so non lightning casters were still able to use a diverse range of ascendancies, items etc.

lightning spells happened to be fairly unpopular leading up to its introduction, they probably accounted for about 1/10 of spell casters being made, maybe less. so when archmage landed it only annihilated all character choice diversity from 10% or less of the current caster meta. if it worked with all spells it would have destroyed the game, it would be a total disaster.



i just dont see how you balance it, when do we ever see multiple ways of doing a thing in the game and theyre all balanced? equally effective? its a dangerous mechanic because its so destructive to character diversity by forcing an all out mana stack that if you miss by a fraction and it becomes the superior choice then youve just nuked the build diversity for every skill archmage works with.


while i can see your point with the removal of % mana regen from arcane surge sustaining mana for archmage+mom+arcane cloak will require some heavy investment into mana regen so i doubt making archmage good will kill every other mage build

this post contain some good sugestion to find a middle ground. i would add:

*making hierophant skills have better sinergy with archmage
divine guidance
Spoiler
divine guidance (current)
30% increased maximum Mana
10% of Damage is taken from Mana before Life
Transfiguration of Mind

divine guidance (new)
% of maximum mana is added as maximum lightning damage to attacks and spells
Transfiguration of Mind



Sanctuary of Thought
Spoiler
(current)
Gain 20% of Maximum Mana as Extra Maximum Energy Shield
25% increased Mana Reservation Efficiency of Skills
50% less Mana Cost of Skills
1% increased Area of Effect per 50 Unreserved Maximum Mana, up to 100%

Sanctuary of Thought (new)
Gain 20% of Maximum Mana as Extra Maximum Energy Shield
25% increased Mana Reservation Efficiency of Skills
1% increased Area of Effect per 70 Unreserved Maximum Mana, no cap

Sanctuary of body (new keystone that will branch from divine guidance)
% of Damage is taken from Mana before Life
Regenerate 1% of Mana per second



*bring back the original Fevered Mind cobalt Jewel
no limit
+100% to mana cost
+40% to spell damage






self found league fan

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Last edited by caboom#7201 on Sep 11, 2022, 4:00:43 PM
a short post on that EB stuff.
i've found this build (cant recall from where):
https://pastebin.com/VT4aFZwP

and quickly with zero polish made this:
https://pastebin.com/RM6pYvKv

with the use of arcane cloak to boost mana cost (indigon) nearly to 3k allowing us to have a lot lower max mana; inquisitor lets that beefy life regen apply to energy shield over mana (with EB) which in this case its 3.7k es regen.
edit: all mana recovery comes from nexus gloves and caster mastery by spending ES.

with more attention it could be maybe made into smth better. But imo original template version is prob better.
Last edited by Andrius319#4787 on Sep 11, 2022, 6:04:18 PM
going to resurect this post with some extra ideas

*Supported Skills have (1-7) to (15-134) added Lightning Damage (removed)
*Supported Skills have base Mana Cost equal to 1%*lv of Unreserved Maximum Mana.
*Supported Skills gain increased damage equal to 15% of Mana Cost, if Mana Cost is not higher than the maximum you could spend.

the idea is to give it a more generic use, the support is no longer for lightning skills and the increase in cost per level gives the player the option to choose how much to sacrifice.




self found league fan

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Last edited by caboom#7201 on Sep 18, 2022, 7:21:34 PM

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