How to Fix Strike Melee by a 20 League Veteran of Everything Melee - KissMeQuick( me)

"

Now we are facing 10x more mobs simultaniously, you´ve got no idea whats going on and simply have to kill entire packs as quickly as possible.
Thats not what the old melee skills are designed to do. They simply cant pull this off without outrageous investment.

and thats why buffing damage is THE way

(Divergent) Boneshatter - with 20-30trauma stacks + Mantra of Flames deals around.. 10 times the damage of any other strike skill. and thats why it is played. because YOU can make it work as you please. it is still a clunky strike skill, has 'bad' clear compared to full screen ignites or whatnot.
but it works because you can make it work

Ive cleared deli T16 maps with each and every melee skill in the game. it is doable - but as youve said - requires either defensive sacrifices or outrageous investment or (for some weak numerically skills) both

Spectral Helix (not melee, i know) sits in correct place. phys version, poison, converted - you can make them all work

Cleave? lol.

why? because Helix hits 2-3times per cast giving it effectively 3 times the damage of Cleave (lol at attack speed penalty for cleave btw)

bring the damage up to par and let people who actually enjoy this skill worry about it being efficient or not.

right now some skills (quite a sad list of them) simply lack the numbers. Lightning Strike is similar story - it sucked hard but people figured out how to 'cheat' and hit twice with it without Hydro. no wonder it is played - it has nice clear (albeit properly built Heavy Strike actually can match it) but also deals twice the intended damage AND can offscreen if you desire


stop worying about people enjoying playstyle you guys find unenjoyable. some people like Cleave or Heavy Strike build (if only stun was easier/cheaper to get it might actually be the melees defensive mechanic - but unlike chill it does not work vs pinnacle bosses so it is irrelevant). start seeing problem where it is: some of these skills simply deal 1/3rd of their peers damage. you might like that skill but game simply requires certain damage thresholds to be met - just bring these skills up to par and see what happens


Lightning Strike
100% attack speed
225% multiplier
(hits twice due to mechanic)
some added damage

result: 450% effective damage + extras


Cleave
80% attack speed multiplier
237% multiplier
~120% extra multiplier from dual wield perk (2h or 1h/shield Cleave is a wrong move)
some added damage

result: 225% effective damage + extras

is anyone surprised people play LS? even ignoring range (like in most pinnacle boses) Cleave deals just HALF of LS damage.

how can anyone be so blind to claim 'it is not a numbers issue?'. LS will die the day GGG 'fixes' double hit mechanic

it is 100% numbers issue in-melee, and similar disparities are between melee and casters

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

You just seem like all the other casual players that want dps to one shot everything with budget gear, die trying to tank everything and then complain about not having damage. Give melee the defenses they deserve for being in close combat and none of your useless measures will need to be implemented.

the irony of this. you probably dont even realize it so let me explains a simple fact you missed. In path of exile, you can sacrifice defense for damage or damage for defense. Crazy isnt it ! So first off you tried to be smart saying they should buff defense and not offense and you failed really bad. If we increase the damage of a skill it means you need less investment in damage and can put more in defense. Please refrain to regurgitate the lame stereotype that exist only in your mind, when people ask for damage in melee, it s because they can invest of defense not because they "want to one shot everything". Pretty narrow minded view you have of other players.

btw, your profile is private because ? you re playing only top meta builds wich are the ones that can do all content with the least amount of gear ? that would be even more hilarious.

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Give melee the defenses they deserve for being in close combat and none of your useless measures will need to be implemented.

you became hostile and rude pretty quickly

ill respond in a kind way: there is NO WAY to increase defences for melee only. GGG tried - Fortify - failed so hard that you could sense shockwaves on the moon. in fact till today Champion archers/wanders/CASTERS make it a laughing point

they will not ever repeat that mistake

Tbh I preferred the old fortify. The new one is so awkward and clunky. Casters abused it, so what?

I'd rather get a fortify off my shield charge or whirling claws or leap slam, instead of having to invest 6+ skill points and having to RAMP up the stacks for fortify to be useful...

Its not like you cant trivialize the game if that is your goal, I dont understand this obsession with nerfing defensive options just so some build is not unkillable. Meanwhile many other builds go from OK to trash.

But if you want to make a threadmill and not a game, that is the way to go.

on a more general note, where are the numbers guys. When we show that spectral helix has double to triple damage in the gem itself with good aoe and good base attack speed, any comment ? You know, factual stuff. Cause according to you the daamge of spectral helix doesnt matter, so if we divide it by 4, you would still playing it right. Can we cut the bullshit talks plz.

"

Orbaal wrote:

True, because you can slap spell on totems, traps and brands.
Thats usually better because standing still to cast or charge a skill up too risky.

I'd like to highlight this because it's imo the most iconic part of this whole spells vs melee discussion.

Everything that has a spell tag is counted when talking about spells. Totems, Mines, Traps, Minions, triggered builds (even those that use melee skills to trigger). Nobody is actually talking about spell casters i.e selfcast in this discussion, it's all about proxi stuff using spells.

But, when it comes to melee, who can do all of that as well, then it's all "muhh that isn't melee". Literally every good build, gem and what not that is melee i.e has a melee tag, get's excluded from being melee in these discussions for whatever reason until we are left with the worst melee skills pushed into the worst setups because that's the only "real" melee. It's like people want it to be bad to complain about it. I mean what do people expect performance wise if they stuff RT, Stun, Heavy Strike and Calleus Malleus unique mace into a hit based build with zero strike range? If you build shit you get shit, this much should be obvious normally but guess not? If it doesn't have at least 4 meme mechanics incorporated it's not "real" melee after all.

On one hand demanding people to show that melee is good by doing uber bosses using 2 handed Heavy Strike is fine and reasonable, but when asked in reverse about doing said uber bosses with self cast Lightning Tendrils, then what will happen? Tell me Sid, how many uber bosses have you beaten yet with your amazing spell caster builds hm?
When a spell build is on top of the meta because of Omni then it's all "spells are awesome". When melee skills show absurd performance by using stat stacking then it's "meh that's not the skill, it's just attribute stacking being abused"

It's honestly amazing how hippocritical and two faced people are in regards to this. Anyway, i am through, just skimming through some peoples posts here hurts my sanity.

"

sidtherat wrote:

Lightning Strike
100% attack speed
225% multiplier
(hits twice due to mechanic)
some added damage

result: 450% effective damage + extras

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Lightning_Strike
It is important to note that despite the confusing wording of this skill, the projectile portion of this attack in no way scales off the melee portion of the attack - in essence, the Lightning Strike skill does two completely separate things simultaneously, a melee attack (which deals x% of the base damage, and of which 50% of the physical damage is converted to lightning damage), and a ranged attack (which shoots projectiles, which deal 75% of the attack damage of the attack each, and of which 50% of the physical damage is converted to lightning damage).

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/859044
Also, the melee and projectile portion cannot hit the same target.

Wrong, again, but do continue.

and yet everyone playing LS somehow know how to:

a) scale BOTH parts at the same time
b) hit with melee and ranged at the same time

maybe.. check again - scroll the wiki page down and read everything. it was you who told people to read EVERYTHING, right?

(note: i wasnt aware about 75% proj damage, that changes numbers by 13%. so not 100% more but JUST 87% more damage than Cleave)


if you want to bring something into the discussion - share your ideas how to boost melee's defences ONLY

and ill gladly explain how these ideas can be (ab)used by any other archetype

"

sidtherat wrote:

b) hit with melee and ranged at the same time

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/859044
So yeah, thread IS correct. It can't both hit, UNLESS you use Ancestral Call. Nice bu- feature indeed.

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

• Buff Fortify from 4 to 10 seconds.

It is obvious why it has such a short duration but nowadays there are so many casts and spells for burst or protection that sacrificing slots just to get fortify up again through attacking for non-melee is just not worth it.
This would help melee survive better when it comes to phase swaps or dodge phases etc.

• Add more "when you are hit" opportunities.

Effects such as on getting hit receiving a "chilling ground around you", "shocked ground around you", "vines on enemies around you" etc. would be pretty much exclusive to strike melees.

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Fortification could also go to 30 naturally, with increased duration as you mentioned, as it's dependable of being close and hitting, as it's useless otherwise.

And I'll gladly ignore you as you don't seem to even understand basic concepts of double dipping, so explanations of other mechanics from you wouldn't be accurate nor substantial to actually improving melee, as so many others have pointed out, but you also insist in ignoring. Kiss_me_quick sees how it's important to actually improve defenses. If you won't compromisse on that, further explanations from you are pointless and won't be addressed further.

Problem: Fortification is too difficult to gain for some melee builds, and too frustrating to use for many others.
Solution: Make fortification easier to gain and longer lasting.

Oh, they have indeed done exactly what we suggested(to some extent), would you look at that...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternatively, all who advocate for damage bump could just as easily stop being poor and enjoy the power creep they so abundantly provide us.
Or is it too much?

Yeah, used mine for things that matter instead of just showing off and complaining about damage. If you use yours too, you'll looks less obnoxious when making arguments about melee lacking damage, when comparatively all builds can achieve a lot of damage with investment.

'my fav you are just poor/jealous' argument :) i feel young again



oh gee.. forum post from 2014 vs 20% of entire league population playing Lightning Strike.. gee.. lets guess who is wrong

in 2014 lightning strike looked, sounded and most importantly - WORKED differently. we had no +strikes etc

just seriously go and edit this post out, you are absurdly wrong
in fact - you must have been away for long to not know that LS hits twice if you do it properly. to know how - read the wiki page you have linked yourself. but read it to the end.
that makes me question your understanding of the game in the first place.. but whatever

--

10 sec fortify? shield charge on a summoner already is a good option. perfect for casters


on hit effect? make it good enough - ill have 1L 'strike' skill on any caster out there. we had that with Vigilant Strike + Vigil. GGG removed this from the game and for a reason. this is extremely easy to abuse.

anything else?

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

b) hit with melee and ranged at the same time

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/859044
We can also get a mod to help clear the issue, or are they too naive in this matter too?

Just to clear things up here is a GGG post commenting on 3.19 patch notes on reddit specifically about the tripple dipping of Lightning Strike:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wm33rw/comment/ijx1qy4/?context=3

After the patch it will "only" double hit with with the right spacing. But with the Vaal Lightning Strike variant its still kind of tripple hitting.
It already tells why LS is so "popular" its a skill that adds up to more than 500% damage effectivity.