3.19 Manifesto - Honest Feedback

I just don't understand the vindictiveness of this latest manifesto. The chain of nerfs since 3.15 has been ridiculous and once again, we have been kicked in the teeth by GGG.

Why ffs, and how is this considered balancing???


The changes to minion builds in particular have gotten my hackles up.

Minions builds are great for a lot of players because they are a lot more forgiving of player skill caps.
Taking this archtype away from the game is going to be the equivalent of a king hit to a lot of players. It's even worse this time around because the nerfs in this manifesto are right across the board with no clear buffs to any archtype.

I truly hope GGG wake up and reconsider this manifesto back because in my view, the changes in it are completely unnecessary.

Signed:
A highly disgruntled long-term player who has invested a lot of his time and $$$ into supporting GGG and PoE.

The worst is the betrayal. There were so many promises that we will never see another 3.15 again..., and here we are.

I think in a lot of ways the minion nerfs are worse than 3.15. I think ggg is going to do back some of these changes.

First off, 20% dps loss and 10% hp across the board.

If a build used charges than there is like a 50% net nerf right there.

If you like summon skeletons, that is like 20% ( more for mages)

Getting crit on minions is going to be much harder. Before you grab a way to generate charges and the mastery.

The ag is getting nuked from orbit with the loss of max hp to es. Also some key uniques changing.

So the addition of two rings and a shield should equal 70% more damage at least to make up this patch. Sure. But Damn those are going to be expensive to get right.

This is even ignoring the gem scaling nerfs, and the loss of +2 on necromancer. I think temp minions are the way to play from now on, like srs, phantasm, maybe supported by meat skellies to block for the summoner.

Like someone wanting to play spectre or zombois is going to have a riot of a time getting enough life.


Like not being salty or whatever, but the way minions are played and geared is changing in a big way, and I don't know if it's going to be a good league start archetype even with small buffs to certain minions. T16 maps feel comfortable to me at around 500k dps, it might take more crafting for minions to get there than RF or arc.

Stepping back for a moment, the PoE model is slow power creep through new items and crafts, and then countering that creep by constant nerfs to skills.

If they didn't provide constant nerfs then (1) they would have to boost mob power every league or (2) the game would get easier every league, or (3) create new high end content to handle the power creep every league.


Certainly the way they are handling it alienates players, feels vindictive.

I guess my question is what is a better way they can keep power constant, while still introducing new things?

GGG has settled on just nerfing the crap out of things pretty much every league. Is there a better way? (without just making it so endgame is very, very easy)

i mean they could just get one aspect of the games balancing under control and consistent, and then they only have to adjust the the remaining areas of the game to that appropriate level.

for instance i would focus on getting the majority of enemies (health/damage) to a good place, and then ideally never touching them again until you absolutely have to. then all you have to do is adjust items, gems and passives to whatever level is appropriate to enemies.

ggg tries to adjust everything by some amount every league, and it obviously leads to problems like overtuned enemies with arch nemesis mods. then they have to start correcting the things that are overtuned, then they have to start looking at how everything else is affected by the changes, the result is taking the near impossible task of balancing an incredibly complex game and making it even more difficult. this is probably why so many of us feel like they've pretty much given up on balancing at this point.

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stecheese1 wrote:

i mean they could just get one aspect of the games balancing under control and consistent, and then they only have to adjust the the remaining areas of the game to that appropriate level.

for instance i would focus on getting the majority of enemies (health/damage) to a good place, and then ideally never touching them again...

Thats the exact opposite of what their business model is.

They have to change things to create at least the illusion of change and also to create hype for the next league. Whether this means new skills, enemies, items, mechanics and whatnot doesnt matter, what matters is change, progress, evolution. Call it what you want.

All of this creates balancing issues, which they then have to fix by nerfing stuff, which allows them to introduce the next big thing thats supposed to create hype and more balancing issues down the road. Rince, repeat.


PoE will never be a finished game with a settled and balanced environment. Thats precisely the point of their business model and making them money.

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trixxar wrote:

Certainly the way they are handling it alienates players, feels vindictive.

I guess my question is what is a better way they can keep power constant, while still introducing new things?

Yeah, target the broken builds that are trivializing the endgame only and leave everything else alone.

Minion builds have never been OP to the point where they're game-breaking so these nerfs make absolutely no sense to me.

GGG is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

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Sighted wrote:

GGG is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Besides what Trixxar tried to explain and which is absolutely true...

No, they might not even be trying to fix anything, they might simply be changing and evolving the game.

We dont know yet what Lake of kalandra brings gear/item wise (and poe2/4.0 which might be closer than some assume), but one thing is sure: Gearing summoners was super bland and boring. Get +gems, get maybe the right chest or helmet, and all the rest was just there for generic stats.

Moving power off the gems and ascendancies into the tree (for some part) and (more importantly) onto items is the right move in my opinion. And i dont think they are done with that.

PoE has been an everchanging game, people that think that change is bad or even call this some sort of "betrayal" are, sorry, probably in the wrong game.

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Clownkrieger wrote:

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Sighted wrote:

GGG is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Besides what Trixxar tried to explain and which is absolutely true...

No, they might not even be trying to fix anything, they might simply be changing and evolving the game.

We dont know yet what Lake of kalandra brings gear/item wise (and poe2/4.0 which might be closer than some assume), but one thing is sure: Gearing summoners was super bland and boring. Get +gems, get maybe the right chest or helmet, and all the rest was just there for generic stats.

Moving power off the gems and ascendancies into the tree (for some part) and (more importantly) onto items is the right move in my opinion. And i dont think they are done with that.

PoE has been an everchanging game, people that think that change is bad or even call this some sort of "betrayal" are, sorry, probably in the wrong game.

There is a fine line between changing things and breaking things... What GGG does is only breaking things that work most of the time and never adress everything that breaks the game... The top 1% will still be brealking the game and other players will be left in the dust. At every nuking pass, my builds usually take a hit between 50% and 80% of their DPS... I do not know in what world GGG thinks it is good for the game, but it is not for me...

One of the major problems is, people keep enabling them to do things like this. Something has got to give.