[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

Just curious. Do these games have chance to miss and stun ?
If yes, GGG should get some help from their devs, if not......

Using Marvel again, since it's also an ARPG... yes, attacks can miss, attacks can stun, lots of other effects, and no desync.

Oh, and it actually feels far, far _more_ responsive than PoE. I've been noticing in PoE, if a melee mob starts to swing at my ranger, even if I run around behind it before the blow lands, I still get hit. In Marvel, if a mob starts to swing at me and I run behind it before the blow lands it misses because I'm behind the mob.

GGG devs, love to hear you chime in and try to justify the horrid desync when it's easily demonstrated that there is absolutely no need, reason, or excuse for it.

I think Marvel game uses client side for everything, wich is easy to make a program (hack) to change these values.
For example, I could debug the client and discover where my client sends to the server what damage I did to an enemy and inteast of sending the real damage (calculated by skill power, my equips and etc..) I could send a fixed value such as "99999999999", wich would 1 hit KO everything.

"

Vinizito wrote:

I think Marvel game uses client side for everything, wich is easy to make a program (hack) to change these values.
For example, I could debug the client and discover where my client sends to the server what damage I did to an enemy and inteast of sending the real damage (calculated by skill power, my equips and etc..) I could send a fixed value such as "99999999999", wich would 1 hit KO everything.

Given how fast people jump on cheats/exploits, if this was the case, we'd be seeing a lot of it. But I haven't heard of this happening at all, and when my internet is acting up, I absolutely saw some lag/rubberbanding on Marvel, so it can't be all client side.

Path of Exile is a great game, but it does suffer from the worst desync/rubberbanding that I've ever seen in a high production value game, and I've played a lot of them.

Hi there!

With this new HP Bar update, which I am very thankful for, it is crystal clear to see the desync issues. I have been using Double Strike + Melee Splash and oh man. Mobs near my target don't get hit but a random mob 2 meters aways gets damaged. Animations play later on when the damage done. Also the sound effects lag. I was so dissapointed. Now I use Cleave which makes the game run a bit better.

Desync is such a game breaking thing. It suffocates my immersion. I get stressed and only thing that matters, becomes the math. It turns into a game of numbers. What I mean is, I don't feel no joy swinging my sword, nothing when I get hit by Brutus, nothing when my character teleports to a place, where I haven't even been in.

Desync steps on my nerves because I can't even know if my Whirling Blades will save me from being butchered by mobs flanking me from every direction. Will I be put back into the middle of them? Which really happened by the way, hopefully I didn't die, thank Kaom or something.

In Diablo 3, we don't see that much desync. I can remember only 1 or 2. The game fells pretty good animation and sound-wise. How do they handle their issues? I know they have more money and manpower, but I don't know if they are the only reasons.

League of Legends. Never seen a desync. Probably their game is only Server-Based, assuming from what I've seen on your post Chris. Everybody is happy about it. Why don't you do it all Server-Based? Do you need better servers?

These are all questions and I don't want to sound like someone just demanding things. I just wonder what is stopping you, so we can help, if we can.

Thanks for such a nice game. Thanks for your incredible Public Relations.
I love you all.

Design feels worse lately. My toon keeps sliding on one foot like Mario use to do in the original super Mario bros lol

"

Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

I might be in a minority here, but I don't want to see this happen. What I want to see happen is melee becoming better DPS than ranged.

As an example: think about your typical first-person shooter. There's normally some kind of combat knife or something... and for reasons that aren't realistic, it normally does insane DPS. As in, instantaneous one-shot kills. No ranged weapon in those games, save giant rocket launchers or some such nonsense, is capable of such things.

Is survivability a problem with those weapons? Sort of. You need to be able to get within melee range. But after that... no. It's not. There are no survivability issues when your enemies instantaneously drop.

That's how melee should be in Path of Exile. Ranged should do low enough damage that monsters will get to them, and they'll need to weather out the storm. Melee should do high enough damage that the only thing they have to worry about is ranged attacks... because once they get in position, forget about it.

"Melee survivability" isn't really a factor in achieving this desired end-state.

*sigh*
Your solution to "ranged>melee" is to change it to "melee>ranged".
Genius.

*sigh*
Comparisons to fps games, where knifing someone in the ankle one hits them.
Super.

It's not a Boolean operator. Ranged would be better survivability but less damage. Melee would be able to do more damage(assuming both hands are dedicated to hurting baddies) but die more easily because they are in... melee range. Knifing in shooters is unrealistic, but fulfills its role well in a game-play sense.

Cyclone with multistrike is neigh impossible to use with desync. Without fail, EVERY cyclone I use desyncs me.

I have to ask; has something happened in the last little while that has made the desync issue far, far worse? Back in April/May, the desync issue appeared small to me - a curse might 'miss' a few enemies, there might be a delay in damage being dealt, but that's it. It was annoying, but I could dismiss it with it being in beta and by an Indie dev team.

In the last few days, I started an 'Anarchy' character with a friend, and the desync is absolutely insane. In act 3 I've been teleported from low-ground to high ground in 'Sarn City' (first area) after being in the low ground for literally a minute; even worse, the mob that I was fighting in the low ground, which had spawned down there, ALSO teleported up with me. In the Vaal fight, both I and a friend died from the slam-attack a good 1.5 seconds before the animation even started. In other areas, I've been kitting a pack, simply attacking the guys on the outside edge, only to get teleported to the other side of the pack. It's just far worse than anything I've ever seen before in Path.

And this is with only 60-80ms ping.


My real concern however (having only just read the manifesto), is that none of the solutions listed actually 'fix' the problem entirely. As long as there are separate calculations being done server AND client side, there WILL be errors between the two - which means desync. And, as long as there are players with massive ping (over 100), there will be insane amounts of mismatched data between the two. It seems to me that the system is fundamentally flawed.

TBH I would almost prefer it being entirely server side. Having 80 ping would make it more than playable.

Suggesting to add some flat hp to most increased melee physical damages nodes.

Benefits: melee chars finally get a benefit exclusive to them for not being ranged.
Melee chars don't need to stack so much hp mods on gear anymore, meaning more diversity in equipments.
Melee chars need less hp nodes as they benefit more from each one they get.

Possible balance problem: Chaos Inoculation melee chars don't get much benefit (though CI seems to be slightly superior atm so it could balance things out).